88 Martinique B/R balance problem |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21143 |
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With a RH prop, the boat should lean harder and harder to the left (port) as you increase speed. The prop rotation offsets the weight of the driver. What youre describing sounds like what a LH prop would do.
We had one significantly bent tracking fin on our BFN the first year we ran it- I didnt notice any strange leaning... but it wouldnt hurt to put a long straight edge on the fins to see if theyre both pointing in the same direction. I would also check for a bent rudder. If all else checks out, you can always take a closer look at the hook in your hull to see if you have significantly more on one side than the other... but I dont know how much youre supposed to have, or if its supposed to be even in the first place. Comparing 2 similar hulls might tell you something though. |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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If the tracking fins are visually straight I'd leave them alone. I think you should be looking at your rudder. You may not have an original rudder which is throwing off your boat's handling. You could LIGHTLY file the starboard side down to reverse the current load you have, so you'll then be turning left to go straight, which will then help level the boat. Rudder tuning is common practice with tournament slalom boats. The MasterCraft forums as well as WaterSki Magazine have had several threads and articles. |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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If the shaft was bent, wouldn't the problem be more exaggerated at slower speeds and then as you accelerated the problem would become less noticeable due to the increased effectiveness of the guide fins at higher speeds?
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Irregardless you should verify your running gear is straight and aligned, else you are chasing your tail. You could call them upside down dorsal fins if you wanted, but technically speaking they are tracking fins.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I second HW's idea of tunning the rudder.
Do check as Tim mentioned if you have a LH prop on that boat. |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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I thought we verified he's got the "right" prop on page 1...
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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You are correct!! ![]() |
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daddyo ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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You've got the "a" team on the case now. But maybe a few pics showing the alignment of the running gear could be helpful. And thanks for the updates on the 912. Sounds like the right prop. I am a little surprised that you're seeing 41 at 4100 with a 10.5 pitch on that big ol' boat. GPS'd?
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1989SN2001 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-01-2010 Location: Canton, GA Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Perhaps the rudder is from a boat with a LH prop? I know the rudder on a lot of inboards is beveled/shaped in a non-symmetric way, almost like a vertical airplane wing. I would assume this bevel is to counter the propwalk effect, so one that is shaped wrong could make that problem even worse, right? Pics of the running gear would help.
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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A RH prop will walk to starboard going forward, so naturally you'd be turning right to counter this. Unfortunately turning right lists his boat even worse. I'm actually suggesting tuning the rudder as if it were on a LH boat, which might be a tall task to completely overcome the prop walk. |
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Bri892001 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I remember a while back, Snobsessed had a lot of info about straightening his strut. I don't remember all the details, but I remember him saying a bent strut could make the boat list at speed.
This seems like a possibility because it would cause the thrust of the prop to be pushing a little bit sideways. Also, if the original prop was dinged up, the running gear must have hit something at some point. |
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1989SN2001 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-01-2010 Location: Canton, GA Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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I don't understand why you're suggesting tuning it to be more like a LH rudder? If a RH prop is walking the stern to starboard, then a RH rudder would tend to push the stern to port, when running straight, right? So if he has an incorrect EDIT: rudder :: that is for a LH boat, wouldn't it tend to push the stern starboard as well as the prop, making him have to steer starboard even more to go straight, thus listing the boat further? |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Some walk is good, that puts a load on the steering wheel. You don't overcorrect walk with rudder tuning, you use it to your advantage.
For the second time...
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1989SN2001 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-01-2010 Location: Canton, GA Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Hollywood, I made a typo, that should have read "incorrect RUDDER", not prop. My mistake, I'll correct the post. I know he has the correct prop. The question still stands though, why try to correct this issue by tuning towards a LH rudder?
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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If he makes the boat want to go to the right steering left will make the boat go straight AND help level it out. I really don't know how much rudder tuning will be necessary to make this happen, if at all.
We still haven't seen pictures of the rest of the running gear. My suggestion is purely a band-aid. Considering this isn't a more common problem on that hull, I think the rest of his gear is really to blame. |
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BuffaloBFN ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I wonder if the back end of the drive shaft is directly in front of the rudder or if it's off to one side a little.
I also wonder if there's more wet foam on one side. It may be showing up as he has less boat in the water to support it? |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Is this your boat?
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Wow, that is scary! I am very thankful for all the brain power going into this discussion. I will post some good pictures of the gear later this evening, as i must travel out to my storage unit to take them.
Also, I do agree if I could somehow tune something to steer the bow starboard, that would help me to level the boat on plane. I will post pics in a little while! |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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BuffaloBFN ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Yes massa HW; I did read the thread if that's what you're getting at. You'll also remember that this is a V-hull, and a minor difference in side to side weight may only show up with less hull in the water...less support. I don't think that will be the culprit in the end though. When yall get the pics, try to get one from straight behind the prop. |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Valid. Could be the perfect storm here.
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SNobsessed ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Bri - Thanks for the acknowledgment but I don't remember giving this advice. I agree with it though - makes sense to me! |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Ok. Sorry for the delay as I was distracted by my job. I hate when that happens.
Anyway, I took many pictures and am going to try to post them with comments below if needed. ![]() In this Picture you can definitely see that the rudder has a shaved spot on the port side where the arm meets the paddle by the curve. |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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![]() Starboard Side view |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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![]() Port Side View ![]() View of guide fins from rear ![]() View of guide fins from side ![]() Looking back from in front of the guide fins ![]() Looking at shaft/strut ![]() With this view I laid down a 4' level and aligned it to be flush against both guide fins to show the angle in reference to the shaft. You can see that it does not dissect the shaft in the middle, rather the angle passes just off the port side of the shaft. I was very careful in taking this picture to align my camera lens with the long end of the level. ![]() In this picture I was trying to let you see the amount of lean/turn I have to have in order to maintain a straight path. Note the position of the steering wheel and compare to the next picture. ![]() Here the boat is laterally level, however it is now in a large arcing left turn. Note the steering wheel as compared to the previous picture. This steering wheel postion is just slightly left of what I would call centered when I took the very first picture I posted of the rudder and prop. ![]() Here you can see how much turn I experience when I turn the wheel so as the boat is level as discussed in the two previous pictures. That is all I have for pictures now. If I missed an angle, please let me know and I will go take more. Any thoughts? |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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By the way this picture is for Chris a.k.a. "Daddyo." It was taken going into a stiff 20 mph wind. My previous numbers were off a little, but it may have a little to do with the wind. I did not GPS it but will next time.
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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C-Bass ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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You should probably try posting larger pictures...those are too small to see anything...
That was a joke. Try downsizing the pictures so they're easier to see. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Please edit by downsizing your pictures so they fit into the forums screen size. |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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800x600 pixels would be a "large" picture for on here.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kevin, As long as we are on the subject of Martiniques, where are the new pictures???? |
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bryanandmissy ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: August-08-2011 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Ouch! More ridicule please! LOL...I thought they seemed quite big. I will repost new ones resized in a bit.
Thanks |
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Bryan
1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
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