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88 Martinique B/R balance problem

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:18pm
With a RH prop, the boat should lean harder and harder to the left (port) as you increase speed. The prop rotation offsets the weight of the driver. What youre describing sounds like what a LH prop would do.

We had one significantly bent tracking fin on our BFN the first year we ran it- I didnt notice any strange leaning... but it wouldnt hurt to put a long straight edge on the fins to see if theyre both pointing in the same direction.

I would also check for a bent rudder.

If all else checks out, you can always take a closer look at the hook in your hull to see if you have significantly more on one side than the other... but I dont know how much youre supposed to have, or if its supposed to be even in the first place. Comparing 2 similar hulls might tell you something though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by bryanandmissy bryanandmissy wrote:

However, I am wondering if the problem is actually a left turning issue and I am correcting it by turning the wheel right which causes a lean to the right. Because when I place the wheel in a manner as to where the boat is level laterally I have a very slight turn left, even while its perfectly level.


Originally posted by bryanandmissy bryanandmissy wrote:

Again when I level the boat, by turning the wheel to the center, the boat has a slight turn to the left. So naturally to go straight I have to turn the wheel right which leans the boat right to counter the left turning tendency.


If the tracking fins are visually straight I'd leave them alone.

I think you should be looking at your rudder. You may not have an original rudder which is throwing off your boat's handling. You could LIGHTLY file the starboard side down to reverse the current load you have, so you'll then be turning left to go straight, which will then help level the boat. Rudder tuning is common practice with tournament slalom boats. The MasterCraft forums as well as WaterSki Magazine have had several threads and articles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:38pm
If the shaft was bent, wouldn't the problem be more exaggerated at slower speeds and then as you accelerated the problem would become less noticeable due to the increased effectiveness of the guide fins at higher speeds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:40pm
Irregardless you should verify your running gear is straight and aligned, else you are chasing your tail. You could call them upside down dorsal fins if you wanted, but technically speaking they are tracking fins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:41pm
I second HW's idea of tunning the rudder.

Do check as Tim mentioned if you have a LH prop on that boat.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:43pm
I thought we verified he's got the "right" prop on page 1...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I thought we verified he's got the "right" prop on page 1...

You are correct!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-14-2011 at 7:45pm
You've got the "a" team on the case now. But maybe a few pics showing the alignment of the running gear could be helpful. And thanks for the updates on the 912. Sounds like the right prop. I am a little surprised that you're seeing 41 at 4100 with a 10.5 pitch on that big ol' boat. GPS'd?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 11:20am
Perhaps the rudder is from a boat with a LH prop? I know the rudder on a lot of inboards is beveled/shaped in a non-symmetric way, almost like a vertical airplane wing. I would assume this bevel is to counter the propwalk effect, so one that is shaped wrong could make that problem even worse, right? Pics of the running gear would help.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by 1989SN2001 1989SN2001 wrote:

Perhaps the rudder is from a boat with a LH prop? I know the rudder on a lot of inboards is beveled/shaped in a non-symmetric way, almost like a vertical airplane wing. I would assume this bevel is to counter the propwalk effect, so one that is shaped wrong could make that problem even worse, right? Pics of the running gear would help.   


A RH prop will walk to starboard going forward, so naturally you'd be turning right to counter this. Unfortunately turning right lists his boat even worse. I'm actually suggesting tuning the rudder as if it were on a LH boat, which might be a tall task to completely overcome the prop walk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 12:43pm
I remember a while back, Snobsessed had a lot of info about straightening his strut. I don't remember all the details, but I remember him saying a bent strut could make the boat list at speed.

This seems like a possibility because it would cause the thrust of the prop to be pushing a little bit sideways. Also, if the original prop was dinged up, the running gear must have hit something at some point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

A RH prop will walk to starboard going forward, so naturally you'd be turning right to counter this. Unfortunately turning right lists his boat even worse. I'm actually suggesting tuning the rudder as if it were on a LH boat, which might be a tall task to completely overcome the prop walk.


I don't understand why you're suggesting tuning it to be more like a LH rudder? If a RH prop is walking the stern to starboard, then a RH rudder would tend to push the stern to port, when running straight, right?

So if he has an incorrect EDIT: rudder :: that is for a LH boat, wouldn't it tend to push the stern starboard as well as the prop, making him have to steer starboard even more to go straight, thus listing the boat further?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 2:16pm
Some walk is good, that puts a load on the steering wheel. You don't overcorrect walk with rudder tuning, you use it to your advantage.

For the second time...

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

I thought we verified he's got the "right" prop on page 1...

You are correct!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1989SN2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 4:23pm
Hollywood, I made a typo, that should have read "incorrect RUDDER", not prop. My mistake, I'll correct the post. I know he has the correct prop. The question still stands though, why try to correct this issue by tuning towards a LH rudder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 4:55pm
If he makes the boat want to go to the right steering left will make the boat go straight AND help level it out. I really don't know how much rudder tuning will be necessary to make this happen, if at all.

We still haven't seen pictures of the rest of the running gear. My suggestion is purely a band-aid. Considering this isn't a more common problem on that hull, I think the rest of his gear is really to blame.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 5:11pm
I wonder if the back end of the drive shaft is directly in front of the rudder or if it's off to one side a little.

I also wonder if there's more wet foam on one side. It may be showing up as he has less boat in the water to support it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-15-2011 at 5:30pm
Is this your boat?


Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

And, you're totally sure the boat sits level when at rest and no weight in it?


Originally posted by bryanandmissy bryanandmissy wrote:

Yes, It is fine until I am on plane and then it gets progressively worse as I accelerate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2011 at 12:33pm
Wow, that is scary! I am very thankful for all the brain power going into this discussion. I will post some good pictures of the gear later this evening, as i must travel out to my storage unit to take them.

Also, I do agree if I could somehow tune something to steer the bow starboard, that would help me to level the boat on plane.

I will post pics in a little while!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2011 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

And, you're totally sure the boat sits level when at rest and no weight in it?


Originally posted by bryanandmissy bryanandmissy wrote:

Yes, It is fine until I am on plane and then it gets progressively worse as I accelerate.


Yes massa HW; I did read the thread if that's what you're getting at. You'll also remember that this is a V-hull, and a minor difference in side to side weight may only show up with less hull in the water...less support.

I don't think that will be the culprit in the end though. When yall get the pics, try to get one from straight behind the prop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2011 at 1:55pm
Valid. Could be the perfect storm here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-16-2011 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

I remember a while back, Snobsessed had a lot of info about straightening his strut. I don't remember all the details, but I remember him saying a bent strut could make the boat list at speed.

This seems like a possibility because it would cause the thrust of the prop to be pushing a little bit sideways. Also, if the original prop was dinged up, the running gear must have hit something at some point.


Bri - Thanks for the acknowledgment but I don't remember giving this advice. I agree with it though - makes sense to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 11:49am
Ok. Sorry for the delay as I was distracted by my job. I hate when that happens.
Anyway, I took many pictures and am going to try to post them with comments below if needed.

In this Picture you can definitely see that the rudder has a shaved spot on the port side where the arm meets the paddle by the curve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 11:53am

Starboard Side view
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:30pm

Port Side View

View of guide fins from rear

View of guide fins from side

Looking back from in front of the guide fins

Looking at shaft/strut

With this view I laid down a 4' level and aligned it to be flush against both guide fins to show the angle in reference to the shaft. You can see that it does not dissect the shaft in the middle, rather the angle passes just off the port side of the shaft. I was very careful in taking this picture to align my camera lens with the long end of the level.

In this picture I was trying to let you see the amount of lean/turn I have to have in order to maintain a straight path. Note the position of the steering wheel and compare to the next picture.

Here the boat is laterally level, however it is now in a large arcing left turn. Note the steering wheel as compared to the previous picture. This steering wheel postion is just slightly left of what I would call centered when I took the very first picture I posted of the rudder and prop.

Here you can see how much turn I experience when I turn the wheel so as the boat is level as discussed in the two previous pictures.

That is all I have for pictures now. If I missed an angle, please let me know and I will go take more. Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:46pm
By the way this picture is for Chris a.k.a. "Daddyo." It was taken going into a stiff 20 mph wind. My previous numbers were off a little, but it may have a little to do with the wind. I did not GPS it but will next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:07pm
You should probably try posting larger pictures...those are too small to see anything...

That was a joke. Try downsizing the pictures so they're easier to see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by C-Bass C-Bass wrote:

You should probably try posting larger pictures...those are too small to see anything...

That was a joke. Try downsizing the pictures so they're easier to see.

Please edit by downsizing your pictures so they fit into the forums screen size.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:26pm
800x600 pixels would be a "large" picture for on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

800x600 pixels would be a "large" picture for on here.

Kevin,
As long as we are on the subject of Martiniques, where are the new pictures????


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryanandmissy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:36pm
Ouch! More ridicule please! LOL...I thought they seemed quite big. I will repost new ones resized in a bit.

Thanks
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