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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah
Joined: October-19-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5698
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 2:50pm |
No dont loosen the set screws, the coupling needs to stay on the shaft and it should be pressed on... not loose at all.
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 3:59pm |
make sure though that it is a press fit, that is one of the first signs of mis-alignment is a loose coupling which has been working on the shaft
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 10:04pm |
Sounds good- I take it when I take out the four bolts, I should be able to spin the shaft and coupling, and if so, do I need to have the coupling lined up with the trany in a certain spot to check the gap, or do I just line up the bolt holes? One more thing (for now) how will I know if the pressed on coupler is loose if the set screws are still tight? Thanks-GB
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gb842001
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79nautique
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 12:11am |
it will still rock if it is bad as the screws haven't moved since they are safty wired and the coupling was pressed on when they where tightened and they'll ware too if the coupling as worn due to misalignment.
Also are you doing this in the water or on the trailer?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 7:52am |
baumanmt wrote:
Sounds good- I take it when I take out the four bolts, I should be able to spin the shaft and coupling, and if so, do I need to have the coupling lined up with the trany in a certain spot to check the gap, or do I just line up the bolt holes? One more thing (for now) how will I know if the pressed on coupler is loose if the set screws are still tight? Thanks-GB |
The coupling halves have a pilot bore and shoulder to keep the concentricity. (Shaft centered to the the trans) You will at one point want to loosen the set screws to make sure the shaft and coupling are tight and not worn.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 12:41pm |
Thanks- I am doing this on the Trailer-is that not good?
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gb842001
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79nautique
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 1:30pm |
it's a good start getting it close on the trailer but the hull is supported diferently when on the trailer than it would be in water. So it can change a little and it is a very tight spec. so it needs to be double checked on the water.
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phospher
Gold Member
Joined: July-19-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 557
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 3:38pm |
yeah, this is a great post. thanks Eric!
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-24-2007
Location: Gainesville,GA
Status: Offline
Points: 6094
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 6:58pm |
You'll know when you have it right...it'll be smoooth!
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1988 BFN-sold"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 9:16pm |
Thanks again, I'm gonna go out and see where its at right now- I'll keep you all posted, thanks for the help!
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gb842001
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 10:34pm |
Hey Guys (EriC), well I took the bolts out and the drive shaft spun easily and I accidently seperated the two, this didnt seem like any big deal- I pushed them back together and lined up the bolt holes and checked the gap. I could see an issue without the gauges- its way out- am I screwed already (Trany issues)? Then I loosened 8 motor mount bolts- Do I need to loosen the 4 big nuts on the arms to get the motor to move? My issue seems to be side to side-not up and down, but who knows. When its all loose where do you pry from, boat bottom (ouch)? One more really stupid question, when I put the boat in gear shouldn't the coupling on the trany side not spin? Sorry so many-tell your wife I'm sorry, I'm new to all of this questions
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:14am |
Ive been accused of self promotion, but, i would pull the trans and take a peek, that is classic example of a severely mis-aligned transmission and imagine what happens when you force the two halves together with the bolts with a wrench, you load the ass end of the transmission, one other thing a mis aligned boat will do is create a drag also when connected because it cocks the input shaft in the planetary bushings and it will drag.
the answer to your other question of should the trans drag? and with the prop shaft connected in nuetral it should not drag, with the shaft dis-connected as it is now you should be able to turn the output coupling of the transmission freely by hand, this lets you know that if it does turn that you do not have warped clutch plates. If it does not turn then you do have warpage.
I would seriously pull that trans and look at it, it may still be working but with the alignment issue from what i see and if it has been like that for a while it has been running hotter than normal causing the lathe cut rings to harden up.
the planetary is probably worn into the case and i bet the trans internally has a few issues
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:20am |
Bau, one sign of a MAB (mis aligned boat) is when you remove the bolts from the halves they seperate on thier own because of the MA, normally it is very tough to seperate the two halves and you have to pry them apart, if you get this straightend out you will be amazed on how different the boat will handle and feel,
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:00pm |
Thanks again- to get my motor in alignment do I need to loosen the other 4 bolts that are for the up and down adjustment? When I put the couplings back together do I just line up the bolt holes? The two halves didnt seperate on there own, but I did not have to pry them apart either- it was fairly easy Thank you
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gb842001
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-24-2007
Location: Gainesville,GA
Status: Offline
Points: 6094
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:14pm |
Greg, get in there with some good wrenches and get the feel for it. You'll be adjusting the engine in 3D, so yes, you'll use all of the adjustments. Have you established that the shaft is happy where it is(centered in the strut bore)?
The good wrenches thing is because you may have some aluminum hardware and a cruddy wrench will do more harm than good. Mine is alum but is a different setup.
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1988 BFN-sold"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 3:44pm |
Hey Buffalo what do you use to tell if the shaft is centered in the strut bore, and what do I pry the motor around with without damaging boat bottom or stringers. Baumanmt
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 4:01pm |
your moving the engine to match the shaft not vica versa, when complete you can still have a good alignment at the trans end but look at the strut and make sure the shaft is going thru it concentrically, it is possible to have the entire package to one side and get a good alignment and the shaft may be cocked inside the rubber bushings and you will see this because it may squeeze the bushing on one side and 180 degrrees on the other side you may have a slight gap, so that means you would have to shift the whole engine towards the gapped side, if you dont understand maybe someone can explain it more clearly
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 4:51pm |
Greg, Shaft concentricity in the cutlass is a tough one. It's more of feeling the rotation of the shaft for freedom of rotation and comparing that to where the shaft goes through the hull and the shaft log. Hopefully the strut hasn't moved or has been bent and the factory did a good job of lining the strut up with the boat. I mentioned in another thread about using a plastic bushing instead of the rubber so the shaft is concentric but that was for replacing and re mounting a new strut.
Blocks of wood and a pry bar against the base of the mounts are good for side to side adjustment.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 8:03pm |
That all makes sense to me guys, I'm headed out to the garage now to loosen the other 4 nuts and start playing with it. I'm gonna get my alignment within .003 of each other and get my shaft to spin nice and easy- I'll keep you posted, Thanks again
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 10:08pm |
you can do better than .003....shoot for .000
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-22-2008 at 10:58pm |
Eric, your right I'm shooting for perfect (.ooo) - Ended up not getting those 1 1/8 nuts loose- need to go get another wrench. Thanks
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gb842001
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-25-2008 at 11:12pm |
Hey guys I got two wrenches both 1 1/8 and they are not a snug fit- what size are these four bolts? They are not metric are they? Sorry so stupid, Greg
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gb842001
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
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Posted: March-26-2008 at 7:22am |
baumanmt wrote:
Hey guys I got two wrenches both 1 1/8 and they are not a snug fit- what size are these four bolts? They are not metric are they? Sorry so stupid, Greg |
Greg, A 3/4" nut should be a 1&1/8" hex. How did you measure?
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-26-2008 at 2:11pm |
There is the nut on top and one under that - the top one seems like the locking nut or the one used to lower the motor on that side - I stuck a cresent wrench on to get my size, but when I got home it was sloopy, maybe it is an 1 1/16? Not a big deal I just need to bring more of my friends tools to my house and find the correct size, I dont want to strip anything! Thanks
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gb842001
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-27-2008 at 1:06am |
well the 1 1/16 didn't fit either, so it must be metric?
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gb842001
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saffer
Senior Member
Joined: March-29-2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 113
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Posted: March-29-2008 at 5:24am |
hi Eric
Newbie here.Great read, thanks for the info.
Decided to take a look at the "gearbox" (South african in New zealand) and found the left mount (looking from the back) had NO bolts in it (bought the boat from USA- Vegas a month ago), so I have a job ahead.
Although the coupling halves are "flush", but i cant pry them apart anyway(what is recommended to force them apart, does that mean they could be misaligned? but tightened by previous owner to fit tight?.
Also noted the shaft running into the rubber hose is "lopsided" and touches one side, but not the other so i assume the whole motore has to be moved to the right (looking to the front)
Any ideas guys if this is someone you knows boat? been in NZ about 3-4 months (without tower- about 500 hrs)
Look forward to many hours on this site.
Adios
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-29-2008 at 12:44pm |
I might be on borrowed time here so I'll make it quick, the couplings sometimes will rust together and may be tough to pry apart, it is imperative that you get these apart and check your initial alignment, the shaft must be centered going thru the bottem of the boat. at this point i would get all the bolts needed and installed and start by shifting the engine to its original perch, then start with youe align, this sounds like it will be an all day job but you must get this straightened out or many more major problems will arise btw, in the background...is he doing what i think he's doing?
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41045
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Posted: March-29-2008 at 3:07pm |
saffer, We are glad you found this site and will give you the best advice we can. There are lots of people here with lots of knowledge. Eric is our transmission specialist (his business) so he knows first hand the importance of prop shaft/engine alignment. He has repaired many a trans that was damaged by someone who didn't know or care about the alignment. You do not want to have to deal with trans problems so DO NOT drive that boat until it is checked. It sounds like there is a problem. Keep us informed.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-29-2008 at 4:07pm |
Welcome Saffer- I too am a new SN owner and have had a ton of questions already, and I haven't even started my boat yet! The guys on this site are awsome! These guys are walking me through some of my projects and dont even give me a hard time when I ask stupid questions - ( which seems to happen often ). I'm not sure of your boat experience, but stuff does seem a lot easier when I read it here verses when I get out in the garage and actually try what I read. Eric and Brainard are super patiant and I thank them for that. I live in northern Montana and dont trust anyone with my moto or the new boat. Greg
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gb842001
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-24-2007
Location: Gainesville,GA
Status: Offline
Points: 6094
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Posted: March-29-2008 at 4:07pm |
Glad to see you post Eric!
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1988 BFN-sold"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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