rear main oil leak |
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: August-07-2016 at 11:35pm |
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I new to the forum, I have a 1975 ski nautique that I bought with a blown engine. The previous owner bought a crate engine from repido marine in florida. I had my builder replace the stringers on the boat, new carpet and upholstery. The engine was redone and runs great. The rear main oil seal was leaking so they had to pull engine again and found one piece oil seal. They said that was the problem. So my builder replaced it with 2 piece oil seal. Put engine back together and still leaks. Frustrated! anyone have any ideas.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Something must be getting lost in the translation between your mechanic,you and us. An engine with a 1 piece main seal cannot be replaced with a 2 piece seal.
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Thanks for your reply, when I bought the boat the previous owner bought the crate engine
from repido marine in florida. The previous owner never installed it. So I bought it with crate engine, reverse rotation, and couple boxes of parts. My builder put it all together and the rear main seal leaked. Told me he had to take the engine and transmission back out to fix. He said that the seal that was in the remanufactured engine was a one piece seal, not the right seal for a reverse rotation motor.So repido marine sent him the 2 piece seal at no charge. Had to be a 2 piece seal. So, he replaced seal, put engine and transmission back. Still leaks! Don't know what to do next Cost me a lot of money to pull engine again and maybe not fix it again. The engine runs great. |
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Give you a little more info, The engine is a correct craft interceptor 1975. When the builder
removed the engine to replace the seal he installed a center oil sump oil pan and the correct dipstick. There was a different oil pan because when engine blew from previous owner he had that oil pan in box of parts. So everything is basically new and replaced with correct marine parts. The rear seal is a problem and don't know what to do. Thanks for any help you can give me. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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Gary is correct. Your mechanic is out to lunch. |
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Any opinion on what to do next? Know a mechanic that can fix? I live in Ohio but will drive to get it fixed. Have too much invested now to quit! It leaked with the one piece seal and with the 2 piece seal. Got charged to pull engine to replace one piece with 2 piece which did not fix.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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You literally cannot install one in place of the other, that is the problem. The difference is not only in the seal, but the block. Unless you were charged $$$ for machining to convert the block, someone is either blowing smoke up your wazoo or doing some serious Mickey mousing. Either way, time to cut ties with your current "mechanic".
Unfortunately without pics, it may be a little tough to know exactly what you have... And it is going to need to come apart again to fix it. A '75 era block would be 2-piece, but the crank needs to have the wick lines for a RH engine. Interceptor marinizations were gone by '70 though, so I am not highly confident you know what you have. Post pictures- of the boat, the engine, casting numbers- anything you have. Maybe we can get you pointed in the right direction. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here's your problem - in the 80's Ford changed their blocks from a 2 piece seal to a one piece seal so you either have one or the other. As you found out a 2 piece seal will go in place but will not seal a 1 piece seal block and a 1 piece seal will not go into a 2 piece seal block. This we have to assume because you cannot fit a 1 piece seal in a 2 piece seal block. You need to use the correct seal for the block you are using and to complicate matters more you need to use a reverse rotation seal also. I guess I'm confused in that your mechanic who installed the seal won't stand behind his work and correct the leak,sounds as if he does not know what he is doing if in fact he's installing a 2 piece seal in a newer block.
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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just got done talking to my mechanic. I was wrong about the 2 piece seal. The one that come with the remanufactured engine was the wrong one piece seal. It was not for a reverse rotation motor. Took engine out and replaced with correct reverse rotation seal sent by repido marine who remanufactured the engine. Put engine back together and still leaks. My mechanic says if he had rebuilt the engine it would be on him,, so its on me., must be something wrong with the remanufactured engine.per him. Sorry for the confusion!.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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it is possible a crank with the wrong rotation oil scroll was used but with out disassembly there is no way to be sure, I don't think that by removing the seal that you can see in there but I'm not sure. If that were the trouble a speedi sleeve might solve the problem, I had the same issue on my HM in the days before forums. Also not sure if a sleeve can be installed with the crank in place either, I took mine apart and had a engine shop do the it
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Yes, do check the wick lines and if they are not RR, Gary's idea of a Speedi sleeve is a good one. |
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Thanks for the info! He is looking for a part # for the seal. Said may be wrong one again. Trouble finding part numbers for seal. Don,t think there is any wick lines on this engine crank,. will a sleeve help that. Does there have to be wick lines for reverse rotation motor.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Mitch,
The alternate to the wick lines on the crank is grinding them off but then still using a RR seal. The RR seals are hard to find. I don't see it mentioned but was the engine by Repido a RR? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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A one-piece seal block (early 80's or newer on the 351w) does not feature any wick lines on the crank- the oil control is handled by the seal.
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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yes it was a reverse rotation engine, talking to builder and asked about wick lines said there was none. So, the way I take it, repido marine when I bought a remanufactured engine they remove wick lines when remanufacturing? Builder says he is looking for correct seal, hard to find part # to make sure it is correct one. When previous owner bought engine it was RR 351 Windsor for a 1975 correct craft ski nautique, marine engine.Paid $1000 for crate engine .Found a builder, he put it together, ,seal leaks,said wrong seal, took engine out,replaced with correct seal, still leaks .Need a part number for seal is what we are looking for now.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3610 |
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Professional shops stand behind the work they do. It is not OK to do a repair and claim no responsibility for it working. He took your money, make him fix it for free. It is his fault.
If he does not understand how to repair a rear main seal leak that is his problem not yours. If the engine manufacturer sent your engine out with the wrong seal they are on the hook for your repair. Some do print the warranty is Out of Chassis. If you agree to that the repair labor is on you and the parts are on them. Good Luck with the repair. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Well, this is one confusing post on your part. If you have a one piece REVERSE ROTATION rear main seal the PCM part number is/was R047041A and I think they are no longer available from PCM. RR seal The link above is to CP Performance and their website leads you to believe they have a Mallory branded replacement, but if you're smart you'll call their toll free number and speak to a real person who can tell you that they really have them in stock. Most places say that Mallory seal is out of stock or no longer available since Mallory is no longer in business but it seems that Sierra has rebranded a lot of the Mallory stuff. You might say that Rapido Marine doesn't have the best reputation out there by the way. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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And they don't have to machine out any wick lines because like TRB said the later ones are smooth on the crank and the lines are in the seal
2 piece and 1 piece seals don't interchange and neither do the crankshafts that those seals work with Do a search on here, you'll find plenty of info Take a picture of the seal that was in the engine and post it. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I believe skidim shows seals available in their catalog,it would be worth a call. Skidim.com
As to the engine manufacturer in Miami you all are assuming he did not mix and match engine parts. Mark you are right on the engine manufacturer standing behind the engine,the problem is that Guy did not purchase it from them, the PO of the boat did so this is something he's going to have to work thru. This,I also hate to say,is where when you buy a basket case you had better do the work yourself or have deep pockets. I had around 3k in 1990 dollars in my Mustang just to make it a realible usable boat,still far from what it looks like today. |
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martin 74
Senior Member Joined: January-02-2005 Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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Ford 351 RR from 71 -82 will take a RH 2 piece seal
Ford 351 RR from 83 on will take a RH 1 piece seal I don't think Ski DIm sells these anymore, they cost about $80 each 10 years ago. The LH ones were much less.. |
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mbshaw88
Senior Member Joined: April-28-2013 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 244 |
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If it helps to clarify, I just rebuilt my '82 351W RR this spring. Here is a picture of the crank showing the wick lines, the seal is NOT reverse rotation specific. I used a standard automotive 2 piece seal and I have no leaks.
Fel-Pro 2 Piece Seal |
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Guy
Newbie Joined: August-07-2016 Location: Adena,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Sorry for the confusing post. The way I understand is that 83 and on smooth crank, needs
a seal with wick lines. The replacement seal repido marine sent because the one that was in their remanufactured engine was wrong. They also sent the replacement that was smooth and was wrong. .I need seal part# R047041A which is hard to find. Thanks |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Go and read a handful of posts back and you'll see that somebody named me gave you a part number and a place to maybe even get it, if they have it in stock. It's in the link in blue titled RR seal that you can click on
It's a Mallory Marine part number. Somebody else named GaryS suggested that Discount Inboard Marine may still have the right seal too. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3610 |
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Those wick lines on the crank are known as a helix. They are designed to sweep the oil back into the engine while it runs. If your crank is smooth no need to address the helix but as instructed there are reverse rotation seals and you will need one.
Fel-Pro offers part number 17748 for the Ford 351W Reverse Rotation two piece rear main. Fel-Pro can be ordered at any local parts store and most can have it the same or next day. Specs can be seen at: http://www.fme-cat.com choose Pleasure Marine Model 5.8 Liter V8 5.8L 351 Ford Engine; And available parts show up. Edit: I see you are looking for the One Piece Seal and Fel-Pro does not offer that reverse rotation one piece seal today. The one piece seals are easy to install, you don't need to drop the pan but would need to remove the tranny or slide it back out of the way. You might have a issue with the crankshaft surface. They sell Speedi Sleeves, these sleeves slip over the crankshaft to give you a brand new surface for the seal to work on. They work and have been a standard repair item for years. Two have leaked I would consider installing a speedi sleeve. Fel-Pro S[eedi sleeve #16251, would need a tool to install properly part # 16301, probably $50 for both but it can fix a leak. If your crankshaft was high mileage at time of rebuild it may have had a groove where the rear main seal ran. The grooves can get deep and leak, That is what a speedi sleeve can fix. Also make sure the engine PVC is working and you don't have pressure build up causing your leak. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Seal on skidim site
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Hi Gary You must be some kind of magician to find that on the skidim site. I went to the oil seal section and it's not listed there but if I search for the number 1141 then it shows up. It must be in the super double secret high priced seal section hidden so well that I wouldn't have a clue where to find it So......tell me, how'd you find it? Or is that a secret? I wonder if Guy has a seal on the way? Thanks KenO, |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ken,
I was curious so I just did a search on Skidims site. All I did was to enter "rear main seal" in the site's search and the RR seal is at the top of the page. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Thanks for enlightening me Pete Sometimes I'm not too smart. Just tried that and there it was just like you said. If you go to the menu on the left side and look at "seals engine" it doesn't show up there but plenty of other rear main seals do Go figure |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Don't tell anyone Ken,I have a couple of their catalogs. I find what their part number is then check the web site for current info |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10745 |
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Don't worry Gary, your secrets safe with me |
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