what kind of oil? |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I am ready to fill up my 302. The decal reads to use 10W 30 Premium motor oil. Are the above the 2 oils to choose from? IS that because of the additives in these oils or because of the age and type of use of the engine? After reading some old posts and this one I am still confused. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
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Just do not put in automotive 10W-30, it has the least of what you need.
Straight 30 Rotella or Delo. I'm not a fan of multi-vis, but pete's recommendation of Vr1 20-50 is sound, especially if your baby deserves the best. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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As of earlier this year, Mobil 1 20w50 has ZDDP, it's the only grade of Mobil 1 with enough ZDDP. I get it at Wally World with a Motorcraft filter and costs a little less than the VR1 where I am.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Keegan,
Keep in mind that decal on the engine is real OLD!! Stick with the straight Rotella or the VR1 and you're ok. The plate on my my 54 says to use only Havolene straight 30 . It BTW was the best back then!!! |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks Don and Pete. I understand the additive properties and their benefit. Is the heavier weight used because it stays in between the engine parts longer before draining back into the pan? Provides a thicker barrier between parts while in motion? I am not questioning the collective wisdom just asking questions like my 9 year old.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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I just kinda fell into the 20w50 myself. I've been using Mobil 1 in most everything for about 20 years and that was as close as I could get the numbers to what my last boat called for. I didn't realize that 15w40 is used in diesels so I was always looking in the gas motor section for oil. Turns out I was doing the right thing, just didn't know it for the first 5 years or so.
I'm sure Pete will have a much better thought out reason as to why, I'm intrested to hear it myself. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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The main reason the heavier weight is used is because it is made for flat tappet engines. Newer formulas of oil that have the "energy conserving" seal on it typically lack ZDDP and are made for newer tech roller cam OHV or OHC motors.
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I'm using the Shell Rotella 15-40.
The first oil change of the season I used a little bottle of Crane Cams, cam break in oil to get the extra zddp. This time I tried a 15 ounce bottle of STP oil additive, on top of the Shell Rotella, it said ZDDP right on the front. Man, that stuff was thick though, it took a loonnggg time to pour it all in. Is there such a thing as too thick? |
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MI-nick
Gold Member Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 810 |
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i usually run VR1 20W-50 but accitentally used VR1 SAE 50 when I changed the oil on saturday ...i think she may be a little hard to start come october...
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As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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no need for the STP oil treatment you really should change that out before it gets too cold otherwise it's going to have a real tough time turnng over.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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So, just the Shell Rotella 15-40 is good on it's own, or should I use a different additive? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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no additives required unless it's a brand new reman motor and it needs broke in.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Ok, thanks for the advice. Sounds like there's no sense in over complicating it then.
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daddyo
Senior Member Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Not to confuse things, but it's the rotella straight weights that they tout for flat-tappet motors. I don't think the multi-vis ever had the higher zddp. Whether or not the rotella 30 wt still has enough zddp is another issue. Shell's website no longer seems to have this info. That concerns me. Especially when you consider they changed their packaging last year and now call it "T1". Did they reduce the zddp? The VR1 is listed at .14(1400ppm?) on their website and Mobil 1 15-50 is listed at 1300 zinc(zddp?). The VR1 is racing oil and the Mobil 1 15-50, according to them, can be used for racing. Mobil now has racing 0-30wt with 1850 zinc, but that's listed at over $90.00 for 6qts. Looks like we'll all be relegated to racing oils in the not too distant future. Horkn's numbers on motorcraft and maybe castrol make them seem a viable alternative, but I couldn't find specific numbers on those websites. Of course, the question i've never seen answered is how much zddp is enough for a 351w...
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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No, you are not confusing things at all. if anything you are clarifying things. Not all rotella grades are good enough for even broken in motors. The formulas have changed, and only straight weights of that oil are possibly OK. We need a new oil zinc level from the new straight weight rotellas as we are not 100% certain those have enough ZDDP in them. Several Castrol oils have the proper amounts, STP has formulas with ZDDP apparently in them now too. Valvoline VR1's now might not have enough ZDDP. Typically you are better off with straight weights and oils that don't have the "energy conserving" seal on them versus any oil that is say 5 or 10w 30. Basically these new formulas should have everyone thinking about the oil they use. What used to be good for ZDDP levels is not positively good enough anymore. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Rasir2005
Newbie Joined: August-03-2010 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I use synthetic oil in everything I own from my cars to my motorcycle.
They are best all the way around for any engine. They cost more upfront but they last twice as long. Mobile one is the best. I run a 5w-30wt in my vehicles and a 20-50wt in my Harley. Synthetics dont burn so you wont get carbon deposits inside your motor. They handle heat better and will actually heal leaking seals. I use Fram filters on my motors and have never had a problem with them. Just change it everythime you change your oil. Good luck, Ray. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Im sorry, but it seems as though youre easily swayed by marketing hype. Synthetic has its benefits, no doubt- but to say they should be used across the board in everything with no respect to other important factors (zinc levels when installed in flat tappet motors, etc) is just bad advice. M1 is good stuff, but there are a lot of other synthetics out there that are as good or better, and some of them cost less. For the amount of hours these boats typically see, its just not necessary- and can be downright harmful if the wrong one is chosen. Regardless of whether or not youve had a problem, Fram filters are junk. Do a little research or disect one and find out for yourself. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I went with Pete's choice of Valvoline VR1 20W-50. My mechanic is firing it up as I am writing this. Water test tonight!!!!!!!!!!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Rasir2005
Newbie Joined: August-03-2010 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thanks for the info on the oil filter study it was a real eye opener.
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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about the filter study it´s from 1999..is it possible Fram improved their quality in this last 11 years??? or maybe they become even more crappy
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Everything has gone downhill!! I doubt Fram did anything except throw more money into their advertising!! |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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just wondering...in the corvette forum I post people also make sure you stay away from Fram filters
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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If you saw some of the failures of fram oil filters from motorcycle forums then you would steer clear of frams entirely.
Just the thought of oil leaking before the rear tire while at any speed makes me cringe. I've been using regular Purolators or the PureOnes, and I've never had a reason to switch. The study Pete linked to didn't seem to have an issue with either as well. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Rasir2005
Newbie Joined: August-03-2010 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I guess I shouldnt have generalized my oil filter choice.
I only run a Harley-Davidson filter on my bike, Motorcraft on my boat, and use to run Fram on my cars till this weeks eye opener. I will do some research on my boat oil chioces before my next boat oil change. Thanks, Rasir. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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The Motorcraft filter is a good one. I use this, as well as the Wix (1515 for the Fords). Napa rebrands the Wix as their own (51515). I have used Purolators as well if I cant get to Napa.
I have read that the M1 15w50 still has a lot of zinc, so that may be an acceptable choice. There are several very good conventional oils (Valvoline VR1, etc) that many here use. I use the VR1 20w50 in all of my boats. |
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dochockey
Gold Member Joined: September-16-2009 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 638 |
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I wish I had found you guys a long time ago? I've always used the Motorcraft filter thats what it had since day one but have changed oils over the years I switched to synthetic a few years ago castrol but never paid attention to the levels of zinc etc I have under 600 hours on my 89. so is it good to switch back after using synthetic?
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1989 Teal Ski Nautique
1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Well at least I "had a dream" that one day my little red boat would purr like a kitten and roar like a lion. I would have rather had the oil leaks than go through the nightmare I am suspended in. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Keegan,
Look on the bright side. That "dream" is becoming reality! Now, to rationalize somewhat on what you've been through, Just consider it a educational experience. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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The thing so far has cost me about as much as a tech degree in mechanics. I am probably getting a better education though! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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