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forgot boat drain plug!! almost sank!

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sunk View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-20-2008 at 12:30am
Today was a horrible day at the lake, people didn't show up that should have, no parking, blah blah blah anyway in my rush to get away from all the things we go to the lake to get away from I forgot to plug the boat. Then went and parked my truck, walked all the way back to the boat on the dock (15 minutes, like I said no parking)I get in start the boat and head out, didn't take long to realize we were sinking and I hurried back pulled the boat out of the water drained it, put it back in the water and now it doesn't start. I got a good deal of water in the engine compartment but not enough to get in through the oil dipstick. Do I need to let it dry out, or do I need to take everything apart and manually dry it out? I am stressing out, and would appreiciate any help.

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 2:44am
Sunk,
First off , Welcome. Sorry to hear of yor bad luck. You never stated if the engine cranks over or not?

ohhhh ,btw , I used to take the front rope and tie two loops in it, one fit over the throttle/shift lever, and a second smaller one at the end of the rope, held the"T" portion of the drain plug. Hard to forget it when its hanging off the lever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 6:39am
Doesn't turn over, the gauges come on and the panels light up but when I try to crank it it clicks and dies. I left everything open all day and tried it again tonight (midnight) still dies. Yeah, I don't think I'll be forgetting that eve again. Although I will be rigging something so that I will be sure not to forget it again.

Someone said it might have short circuited the starter, I did get about 8"- 10" of water in the compartment not to mention that I ran the bilge for about 20 minutes to get the water out.

I should have stayed in bed today.

thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 10:28am
sunk,
Sounds like the water got in the starter. First, disconnect the battery. I would then take the starter off, open it up and blow it out with some compressed air. While open, you can clean up the commutator and take a look at the brushes. If this is something that you may not want to do, find a shop that rebuilds starters. They are usually listed under "automotive-electric"
Starters are really a pretty rugged device. I feel that a lot of people will go out and buy a new one without checking what the problem is with the old first. With our marine starters, there is also the fact that some need to be reverse rotation for our RH engines. Don't go running over to some place like "Auto-Zone" to get a new one!
If you want to open it up yourself, We can guide you through some things to do and check inside the starter.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 12:35pm
First charge the battery, getting a starter wet or even submerged does not usually cause instant death. If you get them wet then fail to use the boat for a while then they will corrode but I have never seen instant death and I have recovered a few fully sunken boats. So charge the battery check the connections and then see where your at, drying out the engine wouldnt hurt. I would also change the oil to make sure that I didnt find any water in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 1:15pm
you probably cant count on one hand someone on the site that hasnt forgot the plug once, and your right you usually wont do it twice...happens to the best of us, live and learn
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 1:36pm
Sailors and Drain Plugs;
There are only Two Types......

Those that have left them out !!!!!!!!



Those that WILL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-20-2008 at 11:07pm
So i figured out where the starter was disconnected the battery, disconnected everything from the starter then removed the two screws that hold it in. But only half of what I was expecting to come out came out. I had a cylinder with a cap and a gear sticking out of it and what was left on the engine was a cylinder with a bunch of gears looking back at me (pic attached) Did I do something wrong or am I still on the right track?

If I'm on the right track, do I need to blow this out and/or have it rebuilt or do I need to remove the other half?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 12:16am
So I figured I had only pulled the other half of the starter motor, I removed the other half that was still on the boat with the gears. I'm taking that to get rebuilt, and changing the oil if all starts well I should be good right? If it doesn't start, anything else I should be doing or looking at?

By the way, the automatic bilge didn't kick in which really bummed me out since that's one of the reasons it's there. Thanks for the help, I'll keep you guys updated on when it starts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 12:19am
Looks like you pulled the motor itself away from the drive head portion of the starter. There should be 2 (or 3) larger dia bolts holding the drive to the engine block.

Is your PCM a Ford or Chevy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 1:19am
Ford. When I pulled the motor off the sleeve came off and the magnets separated, I can't figure how to put it back. Is there some secret to getting the magnets in the cap portion of the motor to open up and accept the large part that spins? (as you can tell I am no rocket scientist when it comes parts)
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.
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I pulled this dip stick out and it had water in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 8:08am
Originally posted by sunk sunk wrote:

Ford. When I pulled the motor off the sleeve came off and the magnets separated, I can't figure how to put it back. Is there some secret to getting the magnets in the cap portion of the motor to open up and accept the large part that spins? (as you can tell I am no rocket scientist when it comes parts)


It's hard to tell from your description of what you mean by the magnets. Maybe you are referring to the brushes which are spring loaded and need to be pulled back so the armature "large part that spins" can be slipped past these brushes. It sometimes takes two people - one pulling the brushes back and the other to put the armature back in. I have used small blocks of wood with a clamp on one brush and then my hand on the other brush. Access to the brushes can ether be though the hole in the case after the band around the brush end is removed or try putting the armature into the brush end cap assemby first. Then slip the whole barrel of the starter over the armature. Although the brushes in a starter are quite beefly, they are carbon and can break so be careful with the assembly.

It's really the motor end that you want to take to the shop for them to take a look at but since you have the gear end off, I would take the complete starter in.

If you have water in the trans, you will want to do several oil changes. Eric our trans guy has stated that it is hard to get all the water out without taking the trans apart and maybe he will comment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 10:15am
good luck, its a Walter's with u-joints and those are the weak link of the trans, how was the transmission oil in the front transmission? its a 50/50 call and alot depends how long you ran the trans how many times your going to flush it and so on, is it a Borg up front or a ZF? because of the differnt viscosities of the water and oils they do tend to seperate, its very hard to get all the water out of these transmissions, the water will sneak into cavities that relieve oil at the tops and sit in the bottem cavity due to the nature of the fluid that it is. flush as many times as you can and hope for the best
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 12:37pm
Yes, the brushes. I had heard of brushes and was actually expecting to find brushes in there but I will be taking the whole starter in.

As far as the transmission I'll have to check it out and I'll post back with any info I gather. Thanks guys I appreciate the help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nates78ski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 12:49pm
Well said Doc! there's a line like that for
cyclists too
"those that have dumped it, & those that will"

i think everyone's forgotten it once, luckily, my boat was still on the lift when i did haha

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 12:53pm
I just did it to me nephews jet ski at the end of the season and Im thinking to myself, man this thing should be faster then this, luckily i got it back in time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 2:48pm
Sunk, welcome to the site and I hope everything works out for you with this. Don't feel too bad. We've all had boating trips where nothing went right. I made myself a checklist to go over before putting the boat in the water. Leaving my plug out once prompted me to do so. The things I can take care of before I leave my own driveway, I now go ahead and do. Whatever works for you though is what you need to do. After you get your starter back on and your engine running, check your engine oil too for any milky looking color. No milk = good. Good luck with the trans. Listen to Eric on this one. He'll lead you in the right direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2008 at 4:16pm
This is turning into questions and confessions...I too have left the plug out and was dumb enough to try draining it like it was an outboard?!!? LOL

Welcome aboard Sunk...and you may have a dash switch for the auto bilge.

Edit-We gotta get you a new handle 'cause I bet this will be the last time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2008 at 1:38pm
Eric,

Would you recommend that a first timer do the transmission or take it in? I can change the oil myself but will I need to run the boat between oil changes if I'm changing it 2 - 3 times?

What will I need to change the transmission tool-wise? Anything special, pumps, hoses etc...?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Lake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-23-2008 at 6:26pm
I left my plug out a couple of summers ago, unloaded it and pulled up to a dock and moved the trailer--fortunately discovered the issue before any damage done.

Now if my plug is out I always leave it with my key.

Best of luck to you sunk, stay with it, the guys here will help you work through it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2008 at 2:09am
Here's an update:
So everything on here has been done to date - takes me a while to get things done. Anyway went out to start her up and click, nothing. unmounted the starter and tried to see if it would turn over in my hand and it did nothing. So somehow I'm not getting power to it when I start it. The battery is new, and I even took the battery out of our vehicle to use that incase it was the battery... the same thing. I thought I could bypass the ignition by using a screwdriver from the positive post on the solenoid (sp?) to the smaller post to see if it would turn over in my hand but that didn't happen either.

I'm not much of a quitter but at this point I have to say I am giving in. I'm taking it to the shop and letting them earn their keep. I'm torn whether I want them to work for it or make me feel dumb because it's something silly I forgot to switch/screw/connect whatever. I guess I rather feel dumb and keep the $120/hr in my pocket.

I'll keep you posted on what I forgot to do.
Thanks again for all the help, I'm happy to know this community is here. hope I can help someone in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2008 at 2:35am
How were you testing the starter when you removed it from the boat? It grounds through the case (to the bellhousing), so if you only connected the one wire, it wont work. If it was submurged when you forgot the drain plug, it will likely die an early death- so having it rebuilt isnt a terrible idea.

Before I did any of that though, I would check all of your cables between the battery and starter for tightness and corrosion (remove, clean, re-tighten).

This is a pretty easy thing to troubleshoot, so I wouldnt take it in yet. Do you have a voltmeter?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2008 at 3:20am
Yeah, just had it rebuilt this week with a new solenoid. I had everything connected on the starter and held it in place just away from the flywheel so I could see if the starter was even working. Checked all the cables, they're good.

I can get my hands on a voltmeter in the morning though. How do you suggest I check to see if the starter is the problem or not? Do I need to see if the positive on the solenoid is getting power?

Thanks for your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2008 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by sunk sunk wrote:

How do you suggest I check to see if the starter is the problem or not?

The way Ive done it is to remove it from the boat entirely, and connect it to a known good battery via jumper cables. Positive to the post, negative to the case (where it bolts to the bellhousing).

It sounds like a low voltage condition. You said you checked all the connections- how clean is the ground between the starter case and bellhousing?

The first thing I would do is to check to see that you have good voltage at the solenoid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 82wake2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 5:13pm
I did the same thing last year. luckily I had someone parking the truck and i realized we were sinking. I now have a reminder above the speedos. Everyone makes fun of me but i never have forgotten it again!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 6:32pm
Like what was stated already. There are those that have done this and those that haven't done this . . . yet!!!

Here's a good one for you. A couple years ago, I launched with my wife, daughter and one of my daughters friends. Was out skiing for over well over an hour and my daughter questions me why the back end of the boat has so much water in it. I open up the cover and see this geyser of water mushrooming out from the drain hole. Problem is that we're on the chain and three lakes away from the launch. I stick my hand down into the bilge and can't find the plug anywhere, which I know I had in there.
Hightail it to the launch blowing through the "slow no wake" canals between lakes easily at barefoot speeds and get it trailered just as the water levels are getting to the point the tranny is going to need a number of flushes to get the water out. Fortunately, everything turned out fine.

Realized that in my haste to get everything ready for the water, I put the plug in, but must've only turned it in a turn or two instead of snugging it down. It worked itself out eventually and we were in the situation described.

It took me almost two hours to get the plug. It had wedged itself way up in the bow (still in the bilge, past the pylon). I felt like such a moron.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 11:15am
My solution to this problem to be sure that I neverdo it is before I back the boat in I lift the engine cover and look down to be sure I installed it before I back down the ramp. I always leave the cover up to vent fuel vapors then close it after start up and launch. If I did leave out the plug then as I close the engine cover I hope I'd notice a gyser coming up from under the engine.
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