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highspeed problem : Throttle dropping out

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brandonkee View Drop Down
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    Posted: May-14-2008 at 6:06pm
Ok, so I finally got my boat to idle perfectly and it does great at low speeds. I cleaned out the gas tank and all the gas lines, and now I am having trouble when my boat is going faster than 20mph. It goes good, then when you reach about 20 it's like the throttle drops and the boat will die. What could be the problem, is it my fuel pump, or could it be something else. Also how do you pressure test a fuel pump and what should it be at?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 6:49pm
there's a problem in the fuel lines. air or something stuck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 7:06pm
I don't think it's air in the fuel lines, but I do agree it has something to do with the fuel getting to the carb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 7:41pm
I had a piece of plastic in a fuel line once, it did exactly what you're describing. Also check the vent line from the tank.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 7:50pm
Is the timing set too high?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 8:14pm
Gunk in the float bowls carb passages, or as stated above otherwise in the fuel lines.
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brandonkee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 8:25pm
let me be a little more clear. I was having the issue before I cleaned the tank/fuel lines, it didn't happen after I cleaned them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 8:28pm
so, I guess it won't be the fuel pump?

It's more likely the lines or the carb. itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 8:57pm
If you werent having this issue before you must have reinstalled something the wrong way. Recheck all you did, if not, there are many things you could try in order to find the problem.

1-When you first cleaned did you find anything odd? maybe it's running richer now and it just needs a tune up. is it backfiring?

2-Check each section of the fuel line is correctly installed allowing good flow.

3-Take each section out and blow to check for any obstruction (the problem in my old boat was a piece of plastic bag just between the fuel filter and the tank). These would be tank to filter, filter to pump, and pump to carb.

4-Clean the water/fuel separator

5-Take the fuel pump line to the carb out and crank the engine a bit, it should start spitting fuel, so don't point the line to your eye!

You could also take out the inline hose to the pump and place one finger at the inlet to check if it's working on vacuum.

Try all of this, either way it cant be worse than it is now. wish you good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2008 at 11:51pm
Did you take the anti-siphon valve apart on top of the tank? which is the most overlooked culprit
it is a 90 degree valve on top of the fuel tank that your fuel line connects to, it has a check ball and spring in it, it will clog and do exactly what you are saying, make sure the vent line is not clogged either, it sounds like your having contamination issues because you removed the tank and cleaned, was there alot of *************** inside?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 1:30am
ok, i guess I need to be a little more clear. The reason that I took the tank apart was because this was happening, and I figured it was gunk in the tank, getting through to the hoses. So I cleaned the hoses and the gas tank and it is still happening.

Luchog - Found nothing odd in the tank, just those black balls that is made from gas.
Fule lines are connected correctly and nothing is blocking them.
The water/fuel seperator's container busted last week, so I have bypassed that (don't see how that could be the reason though)
and I am getting gas to the carb.

Eric - I did look at the anti-siphon valve and it's clear.

I also put a tester up to my fuel pump and it's working, putting out 7 pounds.

Could this possibly be the carb?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 9:12am
Brandon, You haven't mentioned the boat/engine type. It may help. Isn't there a screen type strainer in the carb at the fuel inlet?

BTW, If your boat is a MC and you have been afraid of telling us, don't worry, we won't chew you up too much!! Welcome to the site.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 12:16pm
hold on...MC??? I told my Priest over the weekend that i would never even say that word or even think it   lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 1:11pm
I think Brandon has a 2001, I've seen him on the WW forums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 3:09pm
yea, sorry guys, it is a '82 2001. So that would be a 351 windsor with a holley carb.

will check to make sure the strainer isn't clogged up, but i'm almost positive I would have got that already.
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by the way. JoeinNY, that holeshot video is AMAZING!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 7:27pm
ok, so I still can't seem to find the problem.
no gunk in the carb or fuel lines.

is 7 pounds of pressure too much coming from the fuel pump? If so could that be the problem?

any other ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 88 Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 7:45pm
Could it me missing? Possibly a bad condenser? My old 1970 Yamaha XS650 did that once. Ran good until you were under power at higher speed. Took forever to troubleshoot it but it turned out to be the condensers.
Maybe try a tune-up kit and rule that out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 8:07pm
I thought is that there is a air leak in the fuel line on the suction side of the pump. At low speeds, the pump can keep up. At high speeds, which means high fuel demand, the pump is sucking air into the fuel line and starving the carb of fuel. As soon as the carb bowl(s) run dry, then engine will want to die.

This happened to me and ended up being the improper sized hose clamp around the thick marine grade fuel line. The clamp was not exerting even pressure and thus air was being suck in at the in-line fuel filter. Once I replaced the clamp, the issue was gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2008 at 8:21pm
so, just tightening down the clamp would keep something like this from happening.

Is there some sort of test I can do to see if it is air in the lines causing the problem. Or is it a matter of changing it and seeing if the problem is fixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 11:58am
Not necessarily. The point was that you need to look for possible places that air can be entering the system...whereever and however. I just gave the clamp scenario as that is what happened in my situation. The point is that the fuel pump was sucking air and not enough fuel and thus starving the engine under load. With the very thick rubber marine fuel lines, it is imperative that the proper sized hose clamps are used. otherwise, the clamp will not exert even pressure around the hose.

It could also be a kink in the fuel line or some other type of restriction.

If you can catch the engine and quickly keep it from dying by pulling back on the throttle, then I think this supports this scenario. If not, it may be ignition related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 12:15pm
Brandon, Put the pressure gauge back on the discharge side of the pump. Run the boat and look for pressure fluctuations that may indicate it is sucking air.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 12:28pm
Brandon,
I think a fuel pump for a carbed engine should be putting out 5 to 5 and a half pounds. 7 pounds doesn't sound bad, but still may be a little high. Any more and the pump will keep the needles off the seats in the float bowls and just keep flooding the engine. Is that an original pump or a new aftermarket? The problem you're having sure doesn't sound like a over pressure pump issue though.

Explain about the fuel filter/water seperator container busting. What's that all about? Something just doesn't sound right about that statement! You have it bypassed now, but I would want to know why it busted in the first place. When it busted what contaminants did it send toward or into the carb? Please explain.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 12:37pm
I still think it is very likely this is fuel system related not ignition, if the pump puts out 7psi its probably after the pump. You had crap in the fuel lines previously and so I would say that a full carb rebuild is in order as if there was crap in the lines there was likely crap in the carb. It would be helpful if we had a better history of the boat the problem and work that has been done though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 12:41pm
Hmmm...I did not read carefully. A busted water seperator...I bet it was water saturated and then froze over the winter. If it was immediately notice and replaced prior to attempting an engine start, you should be fine. If not, it may have sent trash downline and thus a restriction limiting the amount of fuel being delivered to the carb at high engine speeds/loads.

Now, if the seperator was saturated, then it stopped doing it job and allowed water to reach the carb. This can cause other problems such as setting up corrossion in the carb. Once corrossion starts in the carb, you might as well throw it away. However, corrossion in the carb usually causes needle valve fouling and thus flooding out on idle. Not usually a high speed/load issue.

My suggestion: Starting at fuel pump, use pressurized air and blow back through the fuel line into the fuel tank (make sure fill cap is off and any in-line filter is/are removed). Replace fuel pump and in-line filter(s). Do the same with the hard line between carb and pump.

Here is a part I am not familiar with, but seem to remember reading about. If the pick-up tube within the tank is loose or sucking air, you will have a hard time finding it, until you remove and inspect. how to do this and can you do this...I do not know. Anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2008 at 3:31pm
I know the pick up tube is not sucking air. I'm going to hook up everything with clear hoses temporarily to see if there is any air running along with the gas. If so I'll know I have a air problem.

I know the pump puts out 7 at idle, but could it be possible that when it's under load in the boat that it could start putting out less, hence less gas, therefore it dies.

Thank you all for helping with my issues, i'll try everyones suggestions tomorrow and see if I can find the problem.

I am also putting a new gas/water seperator on in case that had anything to do with it.

I do believe it was busted over the winter, and when I say busted, I really mean a small leak, it's not like the bottow fell out of the thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandonkee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2008 at 4:12pm
just an update.   

It was the fuel pump, once replaced it started running like new.
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