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taking out old foam!!!

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scout View Drop Down
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    Posted: December-21-2004 at 12:46am
what is the best way to remove? the foam is over a grid of plywood that is shot---it was covered by a thin mat of glass--is the thin glass layer structural? the foam had 1x4 size plywood laid in flush with foam to hold plywood in place?---20 1973 southwind jet
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check my diary 68 baracuda and you can see mine. It will take you 3 full days to gete it out. A jig saw, pry bar, "GLOVES"...yes i almost took my thumb off!!! No the thin glass just covers the foam. They injected it in that way. oh yea..i have pictures from another member sent me so i could see how to do. i can email you....Let me know....Good luck..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2004 at 10:44pm
Hey Chris, can you please email a set of the pics to me at jim@drivesys.com? Thanks.
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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tstafford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tstafford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 2:20pm
Mark,

once you get the glass off the best way that I found to remove the foam was a flat pry bar (wonder bar). You can use the bar to chip and scrape the foam off the stringers and bottom. It took me two days to do my 16 foot mustang. I can also send some pictures.
Trevor 1968 Mustang
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Bill336 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill336 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 4:51pm
Hey guys, if you're sending pics of this process, could you CC me also. I'll be doing this in the spring.

Bill_Oliver@polk.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 6:30pm
Has anyone tried using a foam cutting hot knife? I'll experiment and let you know how it goes.
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 6:31pm
Check this out:

http://www.originalfoam.com/craftcutters.html
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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kenny g View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenny g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 8:03pm
on these older correct crafts,once you cut through that fiberglass pan,you'll find all that flotation foam will be completely saturated with water.my guess is about 450 lbs of extra weight was removed from the ol barracuda.think about it.hot knives work great on DRY foam.the best tool is a very stiff 2" putty knife lot's of beer & time.it ain't easy,but if u find a better way,please let us know.
kenny g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tstafford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2004 at 11:31pm
I'm with you on this one Ken. The old foam is some pretty ugly stuff. I even resorted to using a shovel up in the front of the boat. In the tight spots I had to use a pumpkin scraper.
Trevor 1968 Mustang
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scout View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-27-2004 at 9:15pm
        Pumkin is exactly what i thought, as i did this on sunday--It it like carving out 100 pumkins!!!
           any way i progressed from prybar to scraper then get this---a WEED WACKER!!! It did work but was not very fast---SO i got out my 12" cutsaw blade and took it out surgically!!!
          This was the best way --i could fill up a garbage can in 20 minutes--10 cans so far and not done yet--each can weighed about 50 -60 lbs with water soaked foam, i thought this was supposed to be closed cell-i am not to thrilled to put it back in if it works so bad--it was like having a v-8 engine sit in the boat that did not run!!
           This boat was covered since july and in heated space for a month!
mark
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kenny g View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenny g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2004 at 12:47pm
no foam is 100% closed cell.the trick is , keep water from getting to the foam,seal it.as for putting flotation foam back in or not,that's your call.
kenny g
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64 Skier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2004 at 7:07am
Hey Kenny,

I've got the older 16' Mustang with about 5' of beam. Porpoises like crazy and I' wondering if the foam is full of water.

I'm pulling the rear end apart again for about the 3rd time this year (not very hard) and was thinking of digging out the old foam since the exhaust/prop shaft, wet skiiers etc get the boat full of water so I'm sure the old foam is soaking it up!

Did your boat porpoise prior to you removing all the wet foam? Did it stop after you removed the excess weight?
64 Skier
66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph
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kenny g View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenny g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2004 at 12:36pm
the barracuda had so much wet foam it wouldn't run fast enough to porpoise.that and a bad engine.check the back pages on this forum,lots of good discussion on what causes porpoising.
as for the barracuda,it ain't done yet.
my 68 mustang ss also tends to porpoise,but it don't run rite eather.carberater's shot.and i'd bet a bundle that foam is wet.
kenny g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill336 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2004 at 1:25pm
Has anyone here not replaced the foam after they dig out the old waterlogged foam? I'm just wondering if there were any negatives to doing this, like the boat would be louder from basic water noise under the hull, feel less "solid" without the foam, etc. Obviously you'd be giving up some floatation, but is that it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2004 at 2:33pm
My 66 Barracuda did not have the foam replaced. There was no ill effect. Of course I never swamped it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenny g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2004 at 3:49pm
my 2 pennys worth,if u replace the foam or not.add a sea cock at the through hull pick up.a 3/4" ball valve from home depot is about $10. a blown hose on an inboard engine is no fun and beleave me.boats ain't easy to retrieve from the bottem,if & when you do they're kinda messy!
kenny g
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Beware, I don't have a CC personally, but when I did the floors in my boat I replaced the floatation foam I destroyed with an equivelent volume of pool noodles.
I still have some original, dry foam in the sides and extreeme bow, but anything under the waterline is pool noodles. They don't absorb water and can be retrieved/replaced if neccessary.

The foam likely is a key component that gives CC's their solid feel. But since my boat was not cavity filled like a CC I didn't miss it, and my small slalom wakes are a testiment to how dry the boat is.

Perhaps it will work for somebody else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-30-2004 at 4:58am
Gotta Ski....definitely an "outside the box" thinker.

Great post....now how simple and effective is that....pool noodles
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Thanks for the kind words, 64...
I suspect your porpoise is aggrevated by extra water weight, but I have no specific knowlege of your model, but I've seen it happen to other boats.

If that doesn't cure it, research 'adding hook' to the stern/transom. A nice steel straight edge helps quantify what could be amiss in the stern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim_In_Houston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-30-2004 at 12:41pm
Pool noodles? Oh man. Now I have to buy a pool noodle, put it in a pool, and hang weights on it to see how much weight it can float. There just isn't enough time...
Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-31-2004 at 1:08am
I am considering puttting a channel from low points in foam ares to the open area by engine hole--i have some u-shaped plastic that covers wires on poles---or i could put in a thin sheet of plastic over the hull across the hull strakes--
               any thoughts?
20' southwind jet

        i can get 2lb rating foam --2 gallons $58 makes 8 cubic feet for 500lbs of floatation. it seems to come in 3-4 hardness steps 2,4,6,8, lb per cubic foot 2 being softness and 8 being concrete like---
mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barr 68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-03-2005 at 3:18pm
I just spent 2 day removing foam from my '68 Barracuda and I am still not done. I must have removed at least three hundred pounds of water ,foam, and flooring . Has anyone checked to see if water(condensation) is entering the cavities on boats that are not refilled with foam? Would it be adviseable to put limber/weep holes in all the compartments before replacing the floor? Barr/68
barr68
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2005 at 2:23pm
The problem with weep holes is that it would let the water in. I suppose you could glass in a water tight plug of some sort that could be left open during periods that the boat is trailered. This idea may be beneficial since I assume you are replacing all the foam with closed cell foam that will not absorb water. So, in reality, you should not really have the weight problem again as there will not be much space for water to accumulate.

BTW, I believe the foam in CC serves three purposes: 1: allows the boat to conform to USCG floatation regulations. 2: Supports the fiberglass floor. 3: noise/sound control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2005 at 12:54pm
If you're not going to replace the foam, I would surely provide weep holes. Wooden boats always had them, and no foam. I would do like someone mentioned and caulk in a small tube to prevent the absorbsion of more water throughout the stringers. We've just recently pulled all of the foam from 2 late 60's Nautiques (one just this past weekend) and I really don't want to re-install it. If it's not TOTALLY sealed, you need to allow for air circulation under the floor. We've got a friend with a '65 Nautique which never had foam installed from the factory, and the condition of all the original framing is amazingly good. It simply had 1/2" marine ply screwed to the framing, and it's still there also.

I like the pool noodle idea too! You feel somewhat compelled to put something back in there.
ReidP
1973 Mustang

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-01-2005 at 12:30am
I have figured out a way to keep foam dry--i plan on puting down a layer of thick plastic mesh 1/2" or 3/4" thick and puting a plastic layer over to keep foam away. This with small drilled holes will allow air ti go under foam and water to drain without contact. any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Farkum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2005 at 8:54am
First off I noticed last summer when I bought my boat that it leaned to the driverside enough that the platform on that side was an inch underwater and the passanger side was an inch above water. Is this caused by the foam being wet in that side of the boat? If not what is causing it?

Second is if I take out the old foam what should I be replacing it with? If I dont replace it then could I make "weep" holes like you guys were talking about would they be effective if I put them on the far edges of the boat and had pvc pipe coming up under the side of the boat? That way the floor compartment could vent but no water could actually get in the floor because the whole would be up under that side compartment area.
1979 Ski Nautique
Will post pictures soon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill336 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2005 at 3:38pm
I just got into the job of digging out the foam and found the best tool for me was a 3' long flat spade shovel. I just rocked it back and forth to cut through the foam down to the hull and pried out big chunks. Most of them came out intact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2005 at 1:11am
   all the foam is out!! and i found the engine stringer was rotted as well. I cut out the fiberglass that wrapped it all sides and also another area that was next to stringer that was more foam!!!this area was sopping wet with water 1" deep in bottom of area after foam was out! stringer was so heavy that i thought it was maple, but after 10 days wood was much lighter. I save stringer for pattern it was angled on bottom and cut down some near the stern.
I decided to use either a mud door mat with plastic bristles upside down will allow air and water to pass and last forever, or home depot had that mesh mat called "cobra vent" that is use to vent roofs at the ridge.
   i got 1x6" plastic wood decking and epoxied into a 2x6' to replace stringer. all the foam is out!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 9:14pm
After all this work, I have decided to sell this classic as a project boat---all the really hard work is done--boat is ready to paint and go thru mechanicals---So I have it listed on the For sale section of this Great site!! New Foam with treated wood all new stringers covered with fiberglass and epoxied. Also put in channels under foam to let condesation out to bilge--alot beeeter that original design!!!!all the really hard work is doneNew Foam with treated wood all new stringers covered with fiberglass and epoxied.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2007 at 9:19pm
So I put in all new foam and had channels under foam to let any condensation escape. also will ventilate this area. Have decided to sell and is listed on the for sale part of this great site!All the really hard work is done--needs the paint job and mechanicals gone thru---check out the ad for more info------scout
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