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learning to barefoot

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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2011 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

looks like the new seals are working great!


Like a Frogs Azz!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote k.o. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2011 at 2:14pm
for the ones wondering if i ever try footing no i've still never tried it always wan't to but spent most my time either slalom or trying to ski the air chair. always wanted to try it if i ever do i'll come back with pics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2011 at 4:40pm
Glad you checked back in. If you go back and read all 43 pages adn 1261 posts you will see that every now and then someone will say hay what happened to KO? Did he ever get his barefooting down.
But look what you started, one of the longest threads on the site, with a ton of good info, stories and videos. Don't give up on it and let us know how you make out. I just might have to come down to Aruba to give you some encouragement. Sounds pretty good, as spring is slow in coming up here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 1:40am
something to get us to spring

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 1:42am
Another

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by 75 Tique 75 Tique wrote:

Glad you checked back in. If you go back and read all 43 pages adn 1261 posts you will see that every now and then someone will say hay what happened to KO? Did he ever get his barefooting down.
But look what you started, one of the longest threads on the site, with a ton of good info, stories and videos. Don't give up on it and let us know how you make out. I just might have to come down to Aruba to give you some encouragement. Sounds pretty good, as spring is slow in coming up here.


Hey kendrick wassap!! good you checked back..
Back to Larry´s comment..this post got me started in the BF..so I guess I have to thank you for it!!!
I´m really into it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 6:19pm
glorious outing on saturday!! perfect conditions, of course in my secret cove!! toe holds are comming along..need to make them solid with both feet.
Beatiful sunset run, and also funny..On the way back to the marina, water was excellent so I decided to give it a short run, I had the BF short only and did a plane boom start..upon a fall i almost lost the shorts..good luck it got stuck in my feet..lol.
It was a nice run for a picture, I had the sun set in my back and the full moon rising front!!!
Epic conditions..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by k.o. k.o. wrote:

for the ones wondering if i ever try footing no i've still never tried it always wan't to but spent most my time either slalom or trying to ski the air chair. always wanted to try it if i ever do i'll come back with pics


BTW, hows the boat working? last time I remeber tranny or engine gremlins?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:



This video had me LMFAO.

You guys consistently ski THE shttiest water EVER, and for that I gotta respect the crew on the '88. If the water is shtty, footing will occur. Nice run pulling JJ up back deep across blatent rollers- LOL. The first 2 minutes of Tim was classic, and the double attempts with RH were hilarious. The flip was outstanding and hilarious at the same time. The Casad vintage suit- unbelievable. Good stuff, fine sir. Good stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 7:21pm
kapla, sounds like a sweet outing. Those are the ones you'll remember forever!

All the video from my last video is from the same evening. It does get calmer and as the boat traffic dies. Tim's flopping around was earlier, while I was pulling my buddy slalom behind his 88 SN, you can see us in the background near the beginning. The rest of the stuff was run after run switching skiers into dusk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 7:24pm
thats TRBenj in the first minutes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 7:31pm
No, he's a local friend of mine and has a Sanger, Timmy G/T-Bag. To further complicate the matter, his girlfriend's name is also Melissa. They've been to Green Lake the last few years. He was a strict boarder when I met him and now he foots most often, boarding only a handful of times a year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote k.o. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-21-2011 at 11:14pm
hey kapla yeah i've been gone for way to long lots and lots of post to reead haha. the boat is running good the tranny is in great condition but the engine is rusting out and have no idea how to stop it only thing we are thinking is buying a new long block
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2011 at 12:33am
Originally posted by kapla kapla wrote:

i almost lost the shorts. . . the full moon rising . . .!!!
Epic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 10:16am
well finally got started into learning back deep bacerds....i did around 10 attemps but none was even close of planting the feet and stand.
I was only able to belly slide. Probably speed is the issue...to slow and could not breathe as turbulence formed back. So I was going around 1800-2000 rpm..but then I would bounce and impossible to put the feet down...
I have some videos from my buddys cell phone, will try to get them and post them so you can check them out...


now tips?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 12:36pm
Kap,

Learning the back deep is about 70% driver. If you are bouncing, you are probably too slow, no spray coming up between your legs (only your driver can tell you that, you can't tell) then its too fast.    Here is a good compilation of Roy's attempts to learn back deep to give you an idea of sequence. Unfortunately, most of his clips start after the transition of taking his feet off the rope, which I think is a key timing issue. There are some tries near the middle where you can see it and where he has problems with bouncing, which surprises me since he had very experienced drivers.

Here is another short clip of Brad and me where you can see the starts from the beginning. You dont have to keep your feet on the rope too long, just to keep you stable through the initial acceleration (up to about 10-15 mph) then have your driver keep the speed there until you have your feet planted and are gliding on feet and chest.

When you get to that point, he accelerates smoothly to footing speed (mid 30s is plenty). This next thing is huge, or at least it was for me. I was originally taught to stand up by pushing down on my chest. I had very little luck, then Brad gave me the tip: don't rely on pushing down on your chest, although that comes into play. Instead, once you are gliding and the water is firm under your feet, all at the same time, bring your legs together, turn your feet down and push your legs down into the water by bending at the waist. The first time trying after those directions I was up. Good luck with it. It's a great feeling of accomplishment when you get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaurelLakeSkier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 1:13pm
Actually the bouncing comes from going a bit to fast. It is a pretty fine line between to fast and to slow. The driver can see you bounce and should slow just a touch. My signal to the driver for going to slow (I can't breathe) is to shake one of my feet. The other thing you need to do is stay very stiff (I already see Hollywood having a field day with that one) and keep your arms straight behind you. You also need to keep your head up and look back, so that you have a nice air pocket once you are planing on your chest.

The way the guys at the ski schools will start you off is to practice by taking one foot off the rope and getting a feel for planting it wide in the water with your ankle flexed waaaayyyy back (toes to you shin). Then put that foot back on the rope and repeat with the other foot. Do that over and over until you feel very comfortable with finding the water and gliding you feet. Only then will you want to start trying with both feet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by LaurelLakeSkier LaurelLakeSkier wrote:

Actually the bouncing comes from going a bit to fast.


I stand corrected. I knew there were two clues, one for fast, one for slow. Per your mention of it, I now recall that the clue for too slow is "I can't breath" and the clue for too fast being "I'm bouncing". I've been trapped inside for the winter for too long.
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“So, how was your weekend?”
“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 8:40pm
Everybody bounces at first no matter what speed, the driver can help but everybody bounces. (Remember when you first learned to deep up? you bounced until it finally went away)
There are dues to be paid. If you want it bad enough you will pay your dues.

Getting up off the water seems to be the sticking point. I say to push HARD with chest and chin and poke your butt up in the air(bend at the waist)(fold like lawn furniture)

Don't push with toes(gas pedaling)

You really have to want it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-27-2011 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

Everybody bounces at first no matter what speed, the driver can help but everybody bounces.

When I learned (Seipel driving), I didnt bounce. It was only when I returned home and had to train a new driver to pull me that I learned how critical speed is on a backdeep start.

Like you said Larry, too slow = drowning, too fast = bouncing. I find that 10-12 mph seems to be the sweet spot. The spray shoots up like a geyser from between the skier's legs at that speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 11:22am
I've earned the right to at least read this thread. A big thanks to NautiqueJohn and JoeinNY for their expert coaching.

Sunday morning at the SJRR I went out with those two guys for them to barefoot and in between sets they encouraged me to give it a try. I really thought that I needed to go on a boom first, but to my surprise it wasn't too hard to butt glide for awhile. They were right on with their instruction to get up on plane and glide. I was not able to successfully stand up, but I have a lot more confidence to try now. I can't wait to get out on the lake this summer and continue trying. I have a feeling I'm going to need to find a good driver though.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your patience. Not a great student, but awesome teachers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 12:31pm
EXCELLENT!!! Another one hooked. Thanks Joe and John!!! Now John (JMurph) you have to post up some videos when the weather does get warmer...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by LaurelLakeSkier LaurelLakeSkier wrote:



The way the guys at the ski schools will start you off is to practice by taking one foot off the rope and getting a feel for planting it wide in the water with your ankle flexed waaaayyyy back (toes to you shin). Then put that foot back on the rope and repeat with the other foot. Do that over and over until you feel very comfortable with finding the water and gliding you feet. Only then will you want to start trying with both feet.


let me get this:
once I get to slide with the chest and both feet around the rope, I first let go one foot and leave the other around the rope to get the feeling? then viceversa?
Ok will try next time out...
something like this videa right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 4:13pm
Seb,
If you can get a neckbrace while your learning a the bck deep, it might save you from a pretty nasty injury. I always wear mine when bacerds like wearing the helmet when riding the dirt bike. You may never need it, but it's that one time you didn't that gets ya.
...those who have fallen and those who will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 4:22pm
I may consider getting one..none available here...
I was thinking on using a 2 piece medical neck brace until i can have one sent? or not good at all?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 6:19pm
I think that brace might be too stiff and lead to potentially greater injury. That's made to keep an injured neck from wobbling around and I fear high impact of your neck/base of your head into that hard edge could be bad. What got me through my first summer was one of those orange emergency life vests.

It was made up of a bunch of 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick layers of foam sandwiched into the chest and neck. I took all the chest ones out, and stuffed as many of those as I could (cutting them down) into the neck portion. Looks a little goofy, but I was killing my neck and not ready to make the $100 investment until I was sure I was going to stick it out, and, it did the trick. (I sprayed it black to make it a little more subtle... and tuck the chest portion into your BF suit.) I started a thread about neck braces before I bought mine and the overall consensus was the BFC ones were the best, so that's what I got. Ridiculous expensive, They should be 19.95, but they really are invaluable for saving your neck.
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“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 8:57pm
There´s a Barefoot company neck brace for around $43..is it crap?
I know..its your neck you trying to save..but not always expensive means good....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 9:15pm
Seb;

Here is a link to a thread on barefoot central, where they discuss neck braces:

Advice on Neck Braces

I think the one they settle on is the one you mention above.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 9:19pm
It'll work just fine. That's the kind I use(It's the least restrictive and least bulky of all of them). I also have a Scarpa but it is not as durable or priced as reasonably(It may offer somewhat better protection). The BFC I have not used. They do look nice but lots of $ and even bulkier but may offer the "best" protection.(overkill?)

The secret to the neckbrace is WEAR IT! You are going to fall.
Seems like if I don't have it on is when I catch a heel.

I used to have to grab my hair and pick up my head from the whiplash. I was stubborn and didn't think I needed to use it. Since using a neckbrace I have not experienced that kind of stuff. Backwards falls are the only time the brace really does anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2011 at 11:27pm
I would not go cheap when it comes to the neck or head PPE.
...those who have fallen and those who will.
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