Water Logged Foam... What are my options? |
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Chris73SkiNauti
Newbie Joined: September-04-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Posted: September-04-2008 at 3:09pm |
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Hello CCF!
I'm a new guy here, looking for some suggestions... I have a 73 Ski Nautique that has started listing to the right. It seems like it's holding water on the outboard side of the right stringer. I've looked for drains or any other way to get the water out, and it appears that side of the boat is sealed off. After reading through the "Pumpkin Patch" thread, it seems that it's a foam-filled chamber that's supposed to stay sealed to keep water out? Well... If that's the case, and then water does get in there, what are my options for getting it out? I don't relish the prospect of going through the pumpkin patch to pull everything out and replace it. Is there any other way? Thanks in advance! Chris |
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Chris Bain
1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris,
First the good news: you found a great site with plenty of knowledgeable people that can help. Welcome! Now for the bad news:! I don't know of any way to get the water out without removing the floor and foam. People have reported wet foam in boats after years of sitting in dry storage. I'm glad you read the thread. It's a long one and gives you a idea of what really needs to be done to the boat. It really isn't that bad of a job. Just time and some money but that's what owning a boat is all about!! Get us some pictures! |
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Chris73SkiNauti
Newbie Joined: September-04-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Thanks for the warm welcome! Bummer you didn't have a better prognosis... :-(
So... knowing that there's water in there, do you see harm in finishing out the season here (prolly only a few weekend trips to the houseboat left at the most) with the boat before tearing into it? I wouldn't think a couple more trips would be a problem if it's been like this for a couple years now... Will dig up a pic and post it... Thanks again! |
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Chris Bain
1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Welcome aboard! No worries...use it till you take the plunge. It may have been in there longer than you'd guess.
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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only difficulty would be if you've got a rotting floor. Since you haven't mentioned anything like that, you're safe to go. Enjoy and welcome to the site!
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Mullet Free since 93
95 Sport |
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Chris73SkiNauti
Newbie Joined: September-04-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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Here is a pic of the boat...
Thanks for the advice on running it... I guess I'd better get ready for some work or find some cash to pay someone else to do it! :-P Chris |
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Chris Bain
1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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if it's rotted it's rotted and a couple weeks/monthes won't make a bit of difference, Just check out the stringers and cross your fingers they are fine and all you need to do is replace the foam and floor and call it a day, but things are never that easy in these old boats.
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Chris73SkiNauti
Newbie Joined: September-04-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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What's a good test for the stringers? They are covered in glass as well, everything feels firm when I knock on it with a screwdriver handle, but I'm afraid to whack it too hard before the end of the season... :-)
Best to let it go until I'm ready to open the can of worms? Chris Edit: I heard from a guy at a marine shop that you can use acetone to get the water out - has anyone heard of this or tried it? |
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Chris Bain
1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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If you indeed have water logged foam, you will have stringer damage...or if you don't, you'll be in a very small group. The testing thing has been a recent topic. I'll say 1 more time that when I cut mine out I found problems that drilling holes or tightening lags would not have found. TRB's idea of cutting the glass off of 1 side for inspection is interesting, but may be hard to do w/o causing more damage.
I'm not sure how to put this as I'm not an engineer...Mine were partially rotted though they looked pretty good except for the bug tunnels. They're still solid enough to cut out any 2' section of either one and take out a would be crook. They were weak enough to start vertical cracking in the gel. <--This was in the aft and the tunnels were in the front. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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Actually, it was surprisingly easy with an angle grinder. I used this technique on my Tique. Naturally, the floor and foam were already out at this point. Best to keep using as is and start preparing for an overhaul after the season is over. Once the floor and foam are out, you'll have a better idea of how far the damage extends. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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What did you find? |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Use a diamond wheel on that angle grinder, cuts like butter and doesnt wear down best 16 bucks I spent on the project...
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75 stang
Senior Member Joined: August-11-2008 Location: northwest ohio Status: Offline Points: 475 |
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I use acetone to melt the foam out of fiberglass molds. I can only guess that the recomendation was to remove the wet foam with the acetone and get rid of the water that way. Not a big help if the stringers are weak though. |
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Sam B
Senior Member Joined: November-17-2007 Location: StevensPoint WI Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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Chris,
Nice boat!! My 73 had wet foam and bad stringers. The project was alot of work but well worth it. You will also notice that the wet foam is heavy. So by removing it the boats performance will increase. I had a 30 gal. trash container when I first filled it with wet smelly foam I could't lift it. Very Heavy. There was about 8 of these containers full total. Also when you remove your foam make sure you remove it all even the stuf way upfront. A 6" drywall trowel worked great for me. I could cut the foam using the trowel into sections then use the trowel to pop out the sections. Try to remove your stringers in one piece if posible to use as templates. |
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Sam B
Senior Member Joined: November-17-2007 Location: StevensPoint WI Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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I would also like to see more pictures of your boat. samb.1@att.net
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Chris73SkiNauti
Newbie Joined: September-04-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I'll have it out on the lake this weekend - I'll snap some more pics of it and post them for you all :-)
Sounds like I'm in for a good time over the winter! Chris |
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Chris Bain
1973 Ski Nautique - the Retro Rocket! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21184 |
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I found no more rot than I had already discovered- the only bad spots were at the tops of the stringers, under the gas tank, and below the front wooden floor section. The rest was perfect, so it was almost a shame having removed that glass- but I sleep well knowing that it went back together without a bit of rot. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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It took me 250 man hours to replace the floor and re engineer the interior. I had soaked foam, but no rot on my stringers. I was lucky. I think I dodged a bullet by only having like 200 hours on the boat when I bought it in like 01. Otherwise, had my boat had more hours on it, I bet I would have needed to replace all the stringers. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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kevin719
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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horkn do you have any interior pics you can post or email me?? I would like to to see what you did with your seats.Thanks Kevin
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kevinindy
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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kevin,
Here is a shot mostly of my navigator, Farley, but you can see a little of what I did. The rear seat was completely new, replicated in new wood, foam and tri color vinyl. The wood was all fiberglass resined to ensure waterproofness. The floor was a crazy job, all ply now, resined to keep it good for genererations to come. But the real engineering feat was getting rid of the bench style seat with no back on the passenger side for a spotter's seat. I hated that idea, so we tried to replicate the newer type nautique's bench, with my own spin on it. I used a captains seat from a Mariah that was new, so I saw no need to recover it, and the passenger corner wraparound bench was nearly the biggest single feat on the redesign of the bait. 2 normal sized people (usually a couple) can fit there. I know I have film pictures of the redo, before, during and after the restomod, but not on my digital camera right now. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kevin, Tom bringing up his use of polyester resin (mentioned in other posts) prompted me to urge you to use epoxy resin. I have mentioned it many times and just want to again. Polyester is hygroscopic and is one of the major factors in why the wood stringer systems fail. Epoxy isn't so it acts a moisture barrier. It's also the reason epoxy is used as a barrier coat for hull blistering repair which is caused by moisture intrusion into the polyester hull. When doing a stringer job, it's even important to get the epoxy on the bottom of the new wood where it touches the old polyester hull. Using polyester will not seal the wood and in fact will trap it accelerating the rot. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Expanding a bit on what Pete said, I found epoxy to be much easier to work with!
Thanks Pete! |
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kevin719
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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I have been using the epoxy resin on all of my wood and it is very easy to work with!horkn that is what I wanted to do was put a newer style passenger seat and have been trying to find someone that has done it.Please if you find the pics send them to my email.kevin719@comcast.net And buffalobfn I will post some floor pics soon it is looking alot like yours now and I am much happier than when I just had the ply down! Thanks again.Kevin
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kevinindy
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5779 |
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Just curious guys, what is easier about the epoxy over poly resin? |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I thought it was easier to mix accurately, and it can be used almost to the cure point. That's small batch logic I guess because I've seen a chopper gun in action, but I was fixing 1 boat. It's not near as hard on the nose and brain cells either! FWIW I wouldn't use it w/o the pumps. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Alan, I find that using the metering pumps with the epoxy is more precise than guessing how many drops of catalyst needs to go into a batch of polyester. I've inadvertently made some real HOT mixes of poly!!!!
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Yes, much more predictable.
Fire!!! LOL |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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I can say that in the 6 or 7 years since I have done the job, that there is no sign of rot in any of the wood.
Poly or epoxy I have no clue as to what I really used. My guess is that it was poly. I do know that it worked quite well. Kevin, I will get a picture of that front seat to you. I will find my 35mm pics and scan it at work this week. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tom the true test of coarse will be time. I'm sure you did a better job than the factory did so it may last longer than the original did. Did you use any screws putting in the new floor and stringers?
Did you have metering pumps used for rather large quantities of both the resin and hardener or was the hardener just drops of catalyst? The drops would have been polyester. To my knowledge, all boat manufacturers made the switch to epoxy resins starting more that 10 years ago. How about some pictures for us too? |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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I used coated deck screws and then I completely covered them in resin. No metal was left exposed unless it was SS or aluminum.
They were drops, so yes, I must have used polyester. Yes, I really need to load some pics up. Too bad this summer was shot with my home buying experience. I still have yet to get up to the cottage and get the timing on the boat right. I hope to get up there in 3 weeks. I kinda made it my vow to get it running as it should before I put it away so that it is 100% ready to roll next spring. This may be the first summer I have not waterskied in like 27 years if I don't get it rolling pretty soon. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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