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More like a Briar Patch

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hasbeenskier View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:33am
I am getting back on the BFN. I HATE grinding.
I climb out that boat looking like a powdered doughnut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 1:36pm
Oh man...what a truely horrible association to put with 1 of my favorite junkfoods?!!? LOL

Looks like you're at the easy part now; and I am strangely envious! Thanks again for your help on mine.
1988 BFN-sold



"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 3:12pm
Hey Greg,
I have been thinking out loud.. just several more hours of grinding, then just a couple more hours of grinding, now I still have a couple left to get the remaining mat off the transom where the whole lifting ring assembly was glassed on. I am getting excited about the rebuild although it may take years.
bj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 3:47pm
its the same concept as where you were at when JFK was shot, its something you wont forget, recently,after 2 weeks my finger got so purple and festured that i grabbed the razor and started cutting, I picked, i probed and finally discovered the 1/4" piece of glass.....wear gloves
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 9:21pm
Yes suh Mr. Poobah! I am guilty... A respiriator yes... a face mask yes...gloves uh..... my grip is not as good. but you are right...sounds like... do what I say not what I do!
bj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 9:23pm
"What'd you say? Oh that...it'll grow back"?!!?     
1988 BFN-sold



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:01pm
Listen to eric BJ...I remember the gouge you took outa your leg at the start of this project.
Looks like you about got it whipped tho.

john
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AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2008 at 11:55pm
Looking really great BJ.. Eric is right on with the gloves... And I to remember that gouge to the leg...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2008 at 11:18am
Oh Yeah that... gloves would not have helped the leg but, I'll yield, gloves it is. I'll get some new ones so it will be special.
bj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2008 at 2:41am
How about wearing some long pants too.

john
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AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2008 at 10:32am
those are meat removing gouges on the thigh, they scar, another good one that you will run across is leaving the grinder clicked on and plugging it in, speed racer!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2008 at 11:05pm
I had a good day today. I fabricated the new composite stringers to the 81 BFN. They are constructed of two layers of Divinycell H-80 5/8" (5 pound density), sandwiching two layers of 1.5 ounce glass mat in between.
   Over the last week I laid up four 12 ft. strips of 24 oz.roven woven 12" wide along the length of the hull. Next, I am going to reconstruct the transom/lifting ring assembly.
When i can set time aside to work on this project I get pumped up.
bj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 1:08am
Originally posted by hasbeenskier hasbeenskier wrote:


   Over the last week I laid up four 12 ft. strips of 24 oz.roven woven 12" wide along the length of the hull.


This is where you lost me, you got a picture of what your talking about here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 7:29am
I have a photo of three of the four strips I will post. But as a better description, the strips are to strengthen/reinforce the bottom of the hull. They run from the transom forward 12', (overlapping of course.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 7:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 7:45am
It is a little difficult to discern but there are three of the four strips as previously described, Two on the left one on the right. This was added to beef up the hull.

Somthing the original boat did not have in 81 is an aluminum engine cradle that will be added this time around

I also get a bang out of going back to look at what it looked like before hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 8:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 8:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 8:26am
The two photos above are: 1st a shot of the foam used in the stringers, and 2nd preping to make a stringer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 11:54am
Hasbeen - Interesting choice of materials for your stringers. Has anyone ever used this before? I assume the epoxy will not adhere directly to the PVC substrate - how will you tie all your glass layers together for torsional rigidity?

Also - what will your engine mount lag screw threads bite into?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 12:47pm
Chris, Good Morning! Epoxy will work, however, I use polyester resin. These materials are widely used in marine applications. The composites are my choice over wood. They will not absorb water or rot.
The foam simply gives the stringer shape The wrapping of the stringer in glass provides the strength. I will say that I have an advisor that keeps me on course. I have mentioned him before. I call him the "Wizard"
His name is Gary Baker. He owns a company that has built and rebuilt some of the vessels and rides seen at Univeral Studios Amusement Park in Orlando, Florida. In describing him GENIUS comes to mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 1:02pm
Good luck with your project. I can only add that sticking with a traditional wood core / epoxy resin construction would give you some legal protection in the future, as it is well tested. If you use an untested design & it fails, you could be liable for any resulting property damage or injuries. When you go to sell this boat, please disclose your construction to the prospective buyers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 1:18pm
Thanks, Comosites are not experimental at all. You may know the better boat builders don't use wood anymore but, composites. The boat will be over built and better than original.I am not doing this for anyone but me. It is too much work and too much money to even justify. The down side is, the boat will out last me. It is a long process but stay tuned and Ill keep you posted on the progress.
bj
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by hasbeenskier hasbeenskier wrote:

Thanks, Comosites are not experimental at all. You may know the better boat builders don't use wood anymore but, composites. The boat will be over built and better than original. bj


The composite may not be considered experimental but when you follow the same stringer design, eliminate the structural strength of the wood and rely solely on the glass covering of the new "stringer" it certainly becomes experimental. The composite in todays boat construction doesn't follow the same shape as our old boat stringer system.

When Joe did his boat with the Coosa board, he carefully researched the structural modulus. All Chris is saying and I'm agreeing with is be careful. A boat repairer is not the same as a boat manufacturer. Did you ask him about any failures?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 3:30pm
I understand you critiques/concerns. But, if I recall BJ used the same materials in his other boat and that seems to be working out well. BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 5:31pm
Bj,
I'm glad you're counting on the glass around the H-80 and you had better be laying LOTS of it around the stuff!! This is especially true because you're using polyester and not epoxy resin. I was curious and looked up the specs. It's not much better than a wet noodle but at least it won't rot!

Ultimate tensile strength - MPa
Fir - 130
H-80 - 2.20

Tensile modulus - GPa
Fir - 11
H-80 - .08

Shear modulus - GPa
Fir - 4.1
H-80 - .0309

You have lost lots of strength without the Doug fir. Did you ever even look at the specs? Hopefully you're not just "winging" this project. Is Gary Baker a engineer (hopefully structural/marine).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hasbeenskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2008 at 6:41pm
I guess I have opened a can of worms. I have confidence in the approach being taken. I am not taking anything I do haphazardly. It is foolish and too costly to wing anything. I do not reject this type of discussion, I invite it. The proof is in the pudding. Wood VS. Composites & Epoxy VS. Polyester. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla. I'll keep you guys informed.
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