Removing exhaust manifold bolts? |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Posted: February-03-2009 at 2:39pm |
I need some advice on the best way to remove a couple of rusted exhaust mainfold bolts on my '89 PCM 351. I can get most of the bolts out with no problem but a few are siezed and the allen heads are stripped out. The manifold gaskets are not leaking but I need to remove the mainfolds to replace leaking valve cover gaskets. Please advise, thanks!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Dave,
If the socket head hex's are accessible from the top and not blind (a section of the casting close to the top of the bolt) then you may want to try one of these: .hex socket head extractors - bottom of page 2814 If not then you may be able to get a vise grip on it. If that doesn't work then a Dremel tool with a cut-off blade to cut the heads off is another option. Do use some penetrating oil like Kroil or PB Blaster (not WD40 - worthless s***) and some heat. BTW, on tough to break loose socket heads, never use a worn allen wrench or one of the "ball-point" hex keys. |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Thanks Pete, I will give the Dremmel and/or the extractor a try. I cannot get a pair of vice grips on the bolt heads and the heads in question are very bad shape. Once I cut off the bolt heads and remove the manifold, I feel pretty certian that I can get the rest of the bolts out. Looks like I will use some anti-sieze on the new replacement bolts after I clean up the holes with a tap. I will post it hear when I achieve success. Thanks again for the tips, Pete!
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Another idea might be to put new hex bolts back in the places where the others came out. Snug 'em up and that will take pressure off of the others.
And maybe use a cold punch smaller than the hex head and a sharp blow for an attitude adjustment. I haven't seen what Pete posted until now, but I'd use that or an easy out after the 'adjustment'. |
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86BFN
Gold Member Joined: July-28-2008 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 882 |
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You could also drill the head off. once you remove the manifold it will be easer to get the rest of the bolt out.
PB blaster works great! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Steve, A socket head cap screw has a higher tensile strength than a grade 8 bolt consequently they aren't the easiest to drill even with a carbide bit. They are hard - min. Rockwell C39!!! Have you even tried drilling one? |
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bradtm16
Groupie Joined: March-11-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Once you do get them out, you should run a tap in the threads to clean out as much rust as possible. When you get new bolts, you have to go back with the allen head style, I was going to try to switch my to hex head but the head is to large. Just a little tip to save you time.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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They do make stainless ones and with some anti seeze you'll never have any trouble again
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Is stainless & cast iron a good mix? Sometimes different metals will have galvanic reaction. Just wondering.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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I tried drilling the heads off and Pete is right...it's nearly impossible even with a carbide bit. I am going to try using my Dremmel to cut them off but was wondering which particular Dremmel wheel I should use. I also plan to heat the them with a torch and wack them with a punch to set up vibration so I can get the penetrating oil to suck down into the threads as it cools. I like the idea of putting the new bolts in and tightening them to help relieve the stuck bolts.
I have never had such a hard time removing the manifolds on other(hot rod)projects. Maybe it's just a Ford thing, lol!! Thanks for all the great imput! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Chris, Stainless is simply a carbon steel alloy so it's cool with the cast iron. Dave, You should be able to cut into the head most of the way without hitting the casting with the standard Dremel cut off wheel/arbor. Then with a cold chisel break it off (remember it's hard!!) the rest of the way. You may then need to go back at it with a mounted stone to remove what's left of the head. |
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dwcar
Platinum Member Joined: February-11-2007 Location: Houston Texas Status: Offline Points: 1103 |
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Dave,
I just removed my manifolds. I broke off one of my bolt heads. Luckly it was just the head and there was enough of the bolt sticking out that i could get a pair of vice grips on it. I was told to take something like an ice pick or finer and pick around where the bolt goes into the engine. I was able to get some of the rust out of the threads. I also used the PB blaster. I kept working it for about 4 days and when i tried the vice grips it came right out. good luck |
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83Ski
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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Dave,
Take your time! It's easy to get frustrated with frozen bolts. Penatrating fluid, heat, cut-off wheel ect.. You'll probably use all the tools you can think of.Try to keep the colateral damage to a minimum. |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Definately taking my time...I have been trying to drill the heads off without much progress. It's time to try some new tricks. I have a torch, chisels, dremmel, cold case of beer, etc to spend the weekend on this project. I have been very cautious not to screw up the manifold flanges.
With enough work and patience, I WILL get them off. I have all new bolts and bunch of other new goodies coming from Skidim...and spring is on it's way! I can't wait to get back out on the water for some fun in the sun. Now, if we could just get out of this severe Texas drought we are in to fill up the lake... |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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best thing to use is a cut off wheel on a die grinder and cut the bolt head off, then use a grinding wheel to get the rest of it.
next best is a cutting torch. don't forget to spray PB or liquid wrench between the mainfold and block that's where the threads start, remove all of the other bolts except the one that is broke and that should create a small gap where it can wick into, it won't wick all of the way from the outside of the manifold to where the threads are after that install one other bolt at the opposite end tear out the gasket helps as well to get the the penetrating oil to where it needs to be. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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use this if you are using your dremel tool
cut an x in the head and then use your cold chisel to pop them off the rest of the way if you cannot get to it to cut it off perpendicular to the thread body. |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Great advice '79, that makes sense. I believe I have some of those fiberglass cut off wheels. I am off on Fridays so I should have the manifolds off by tomorrow afternoon. It's amazing that something made of fiberglass can cut hardened steel! Stranger things have happened, I guess.
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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79,
I forgot the X-cut trick. Removed a lot of chassis rivets like that. Cut a X then use a rivet gun with a chisel. Oh wear ear plugs! |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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The x-cut worked like a charm...I was able to cut off the heads of four bolts that were bad. I was able to pull the manifold off over the studs and then used vice grips to easily remove the studs. Luckily the other side's manifold came off without any trouble. I have seperated the manifolds from the risers and will sandblast, prime, and re-paint them along with all new bolts, gaskets, and fittings. I might as well detail the engine block while I have it apart. Thanks for all the great advice you guys gave me. It won't be long and I will be back on the lake with a sweet running Correct Craft!
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Dave, I use High temp disk brake caliper paint on my manifolds. It will still burn off down low by the exhaust ports but otherwise it holds up very well and has a nice gloss to it.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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the riser and manifiolds need to be diped and cleaned so the internals are clean.
the manifolds needs inspecteced for rust and possible faulure area's and replaced if needed. Risers rairly go bad unless used in salt or brackish water so cleaning, internally, is all that is ever needed. the manifolds see tons of heat and can rust faster and fail aka crack and leak. With the risers removed you should be able to see the internal passages to a degree and a small mirror helps as well. But you can inspect and if you remove the rear drain plug and see lots of rust flakes then it's time to concider replacing before you hydro-lock the motor from a cracked leaking manifold and have to spend way more than the three hundred or so to get new PCM's |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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I agree. I plan to dip these parts and will inspect for any damage. This boat has spent it's life running two lakes in our area that are full of hard calcium water so I do see a lot of white build up on the inside of the risers. I might try soaking them in CLR before dipping them just to see how much of the hard deposits I can remove.
I had one of the stock manifold drain plugs that was stuck like chuck so I drilled it out. I found some nice brass 3/4" plugs with outer square bolt heads at Lowes to replace the stock recessed type of plug. This will make removal of these things MUCH easier. I can't wait to get these things restored and back on the boat. Next up, I plan to pull the prop and get it to the Nettle's Prop Shop for a re-do. While I have it off, I want to replace the strut bearing and check my alignment. After that, I should be good to go for the summer. |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Update: I seperated the risers from the manifolds and hot tanked them and then sandblasted them. I took them to a local machine shop to have them re-surfaced. It's very important to do this! It cost me $100 which I thought was a little steep, but those guys have to eat too. I then sprayed everything with some good automotive self etching primer and then two coats of hi-gloss/hi temp black spray paint. I got all new bolts, gaskets, and fittings from skidim.com. I also installed new corregated rubber hose. The thing looks brand new! She's going in the water on Friday for a shake down cruise. I am also gonna test my new speedo gauge and pitot. Woo hoo, spring is almost here! It's supposed to be 85 degrees today...
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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You're saying you replaced the square socket plug with a square head plug? I like the top one better. The bottom variety seems much easier to strip. Don't overtighten and you won't have any problems with either. |
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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Yep! The plugs on mine were turned at a position that I could not get a tool on them. They were obviously on there for a long time and one of the square pockets rounded out. I had to drill it out to remove it. The new ones get some anti-seize and just the right amount of torque to keep from over tightening. With the outer boss...it's MUCH easier to get a tool on them when they need to be removed for winterizing.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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What kind of tool(s) were you using? All you need is a 1/2" drive socket wrench. I do agree that you will have an easier time removing a stripped square head over a square socket plug.
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Dave D.
Groupie Joined: June-09-2008 Location: Lake Travis, TX Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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I tried using a piece of square steel that was the proper size and bent on the end like an allen wrench. I also tried a 3/4" rachet extension (without a socket) on it. The problem is with very limited clearance due to the low swept riser that will not allow you to get the tool on it. Whoever tightened it last, left the plugs in just the right position to make getting a tool on it impossible. I even tried using vice grips on the outer diameter of the plugs, but they were stuck like chuck. Even with PB blaster and tapping them to set up vibration, no dice.
With the new plugs I am using, any old wrench will work, no matter what position they are in. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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You were not able to get a 1/2" drive socket wrench in the old plug? I've never had a problem with mine.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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You should have followed HW's advice and used a regular 1/2" drive ratchet on it. Works perfectly on the low swept PCM risers. |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hey All, Can anyone show me what this tool is? The link does not work. I am running into the same situation. I need to get a couple manifold bolts off. Tom |
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1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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