83 SN restore in Idaho |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Posted: April-08-2009 at 4:41pm |
It must be love.....for why else would one start such an undertaking???
Noticed a soft spot in between the drivers and observers seat. Pulled back carpet, wood is gone... So here it starts. Days one and two. Removed furniture, carpet, engine, fuel tank, and started into the floor. Secondaries are goners, primaries aren't too bad. Going to replace all. I need to resize my photos but will definately be indulging all that wish to track the progress. The snow is melting fast so I need to move right along. Cheers. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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It is a labor of love for certain.
Good luck Seth!! Post tons of pics. You better get crackin quick! Snow is going to gone out there pretty quick. Mike |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Drivers primary and secondary
Up Up and away The helper Observers side Stupid bulkhead Too much HP for this application?? |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Sorry, I'll make them even smaller..
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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More....
Primary at cradle Drivers secondary Not good for separating water from wood |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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every time I see this pics I get nightmares
I do have some soft spots @ the same areas. didnīt tear it appart yet but Iīm worried of finding this scenario.... |
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Kapla, I didn't really want to do it this spring but I didn't want it to progress to spider cracks in the gel, as I don't have any yet. I thought that we live in such a dry climate that it would dry out after each use, but obviously not.
Oh well, it'll be funnn..... |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Had a break in the weather, removed the right side floor and foam. About to start on first secondary. Need to get the rest out first though.
I've been reading the posts and can't find a good description of how to support the boat or if I even need to. The boat is currently sitting on its trailer and I will be doing one stringer at a time. What are everyones thoughts on that? |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Do get it on supports so that your hull doesn't change shape when you take it apart. I think it's also a good idea to take out one main stringer at a time, replace, and then do the other.
This is a long read but the info is there! Pumpkin patch |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well it's been a wet spring and since I'm doing this outside I haven't been able to work on it a whole lot untill recently.
So here is the progress report. I got the boat supported. It's on the trailer and I supported both sides of the bow and the transom as well as a piller under the center of the hull. Removed drivers secondary and main and started ginding.....oh that's fun. How much do I need to grind? Does it need to be down to the hull, flat or just enough to get the stringers in place? I got the channel for the secondary flat but the main has about a 1/4 inch of material, especially on the bilge side. I am planning on repainting the bilge, so do I need to remove all the old bilge paint, will the new glass stick to the old paint, and is there any worry that the old layers of glass aren't bonded well enough to the hull to support the new stringers??? |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1422 |
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I found as you grind off you will find bits that turn gray which meant it was loose/bond had given up so kept going until it was a honey colour, can have dips in it just no gray, I took off all the old bilge paint/gel back to bare hull its all down to how bad your OCD is some of us have it bad.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Okay, so I did some grinding yesterday, love that - it's soooo much fun!!
What do you all think, is this looking like it's ready, or do I need to grind the channels out more? Just asking because I've never done glass work before and I want to make sure I'm going to get a strong bond. Cheers I am planning on smoothing things out more and grinding off more of the old bildge paint. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Seth,
It's looking good infact you may be overdoing the grinding. The concern is to just get through the bilge coating so you'll have a good epoxy bond to the old hull. Don't worry about the small voids in the old hull. They will get filled up when you get to glassing in the new stringers. |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Thanks Pete, I still need to cut out the blocks on the transom. I won't grind the hull any more though.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I basically agree with Pete, but I did cut mine back a little further.
I found a 36 grit flapper wheel on the grinder to be handy at this point. The better your prep is now(smoother), the easier the new glass will go down. |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Just ordered some supplies.
US Composites 8.5 oz glass tape 50 yds each 2" 4" 8" 80 yds 4" mat 8 Gallons Epoxy resin 1 gallon Carbosil and some rollers and pumps. I am starting here because I haven't decided how to do the floor yet - wood or glass. US Composites suggested 8.5 oz tape, does that sound right? BFN - I was going to smooth things down with that flapper disk also, mainly on the bilge side. |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Also, Mark suggested that instead of spending big $ on CPES that I could mix my own with resin and acetone at no more than 10%. Has any one done this - good or bad idea?
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Should I cut out the blocks on the transom that hold the platform and exhaust? They are wet/partially rotten. There were no problems holding the platform before. And if I reinstall with 5200 they might be fine???
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newoldboat
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Ft. Myers Fl Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Seth, I'm doing the same repair. I found a grinding disk was great for removing the stringers. A sanding disc was better for grinding the paint off of the bilge area. Your sanding looks good, I used the sanding disc to remove some of the bare mat that you can see in your pics. It seems around the stringers they didn't use enough resin so I sanded off the bare mat that wasn't saturated from the factory. Hang in there, this job sucks but it is necessary. I don't know what rollers you bought but I have tried a couple and the Bodi aluminum rollers seem to be the best. I used the crappy plastic ones from west and they didn't last very long. Good luck!
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nautiless
Senior Member Joined: June-30-2008 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 186 |
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Good luck Seth. It's well worth it. My project is a bit further down the road and i'm getting pretty damn thrilled for summer....keep the end in mind while your hands go numb holding a grinder.
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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On the CPES, a fellow can't be blamed for pushing his own product; but I think it's much more efficient to have the proprietary stuff ready for the next coat. I used a lot of it!
On the transom, that's your call; but if you have troubles there later you'll have to cut out a lot of new work to get at it. I think I replaced 3 of 5 in mine, and I soaked the 2 with cpes. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Seth,
I sure would not take the chance on the transom wood reinforcements. The wood is already wet and it will rot. You're down in there now with the grinder and will have the resin/glass out soon so it's just logical to do it now. Yes, thinning resin with a solvent has been around for years. When the Grougon (sp?)brothers of West heard about it years ago they came out with a hugh warning. They are very concerned with the compatability of certain solvents with the epoxy resin. Personally I won't take the chance and will continue using the CPES. |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1422 |
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Seth yes as Greg said a touch more grinding as you show in the pictures the part that goes from gray to pink has lifted from the hull, try a knife first and see if it lifts before you grind I found mine did.
As Pete has educated us water come in through the hull and my thinking is over the years each winter it will freeze and pry apart the joints along with the swelling of the wood and finally the rot sets in, this is how it works for us in colder parts. Your new way should stop all this. |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Buffalo - do you remember how much CPES you used??
UK - I'll take another look but I think that everything that is left is strongly bonded. But I don't want to take any chances either. Has anyone had any problems with the epoxy resin setting up in direct sun light - UV rays. I am doing all this out side and someone mentioned to me that the UV might affect the set up. I know it will change the cure time, just as long as it doesn't have any negative affects on the bonding properties or such. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I used most of a 2 gallon kit. I also used pumps...makes it so much easier.
What Roger and I are talking about with the grinding is the heavy weave is the original hull, the multi-directional on top is what was used to glass the stringers in. I glassed everything directly to the hull; not to the stuff on top. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Seth,
The UV won't speed the cure rate but heat will. If you are mixing large batches then pouring the mixed epoxy into a roller pan will spread it out so the heat isn't concentrated in a small cup. You may want to go to a slower cure hardener too. The UV comment you caught may have been it's effect on cured epoxy on clear coats. It turns white with age from the UV. It has to have multiple clear coats with UV inhibiting in it such as a marine spar varnish. |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Buffalo - that's what I though initially. I wasn't sure if that layer might be strong enough to bond to or if it should be removed. I decided to stop here after Pete's comment on not grinding any more, but now I'm not so sure of that decision.
I don't think you can tell in the photos but the once original channel is now about twice as wide as before. Would you take it out to the width of the new glass - 4" on each side plus width of stringer so that it bonds directly to the hull?? |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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I'll respond to this more a bit later, but I have to ask if you read through the pumpkin patch?!!?
Like I said before...I basically agree with pete on this. The kicker is the amount of 'first timer' info in the patch. Read through it and even jot down some notes....and make sure to have a pot of coffee on standby. Please don't get me in a scrap with Pete...much of the 'first time' info came from him! |
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KFD14
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2008 Location: Hailey, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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I have, maybe I muddled up all the info and don't remember those specifics.
I certainly don't want to get anyone into a scrap especially after reading the post on xmass tree studs. I'll make sure I read through the patch again, and again, and again..... This thing is my baby and I don't want to f*#* it up so thanks to everyone for all the help so far and in the future. Cheers |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Cheers always!
I was being overly careful not to step on toes...some of us have been aroud here and have become as good of friends as one can be over a forum and the coconut telegraph. Others who have driven all the way south(or flown) have actually met me and would probably tell you to run! (2 jokes in there GL folks...maybe 3 ) You'll find that there is some resin poured in that has no glass in it...very brittle. The white fibers on the edge of you cutouts is glass that was never saturated. I figured the best structure was to go back to the foundation(which is super solid) and build up from there. Pete, feel free to fill in! |
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