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Okie Boarder's Floor and Stringer Replacement

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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Okie Boarder's Floor and Stringer Replacement
    Posted: May-11-2010 at 1:17pm
Yeah, I have two concerns. The ski locker itself breaking and it crushing stuff under it. I would think support just off center in two spots might be enough.
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  Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2010 at 2:03pm
If you wanted to, you could add a piece of ply in the bottom of the locker so the ballast bag would be supported all the way across and the locker wouldn't flex where it's not supported.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2010 at 5:09pm
I had thought about that as an option. Just drop it in there is what you're thinking, right? I wonder what it would do if I put one inside and one outside (on the bottom) and screwed them together through the plastic?
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  Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2010 at 6:11pm
Andy,
You've got plenty of support for the fuel tank correct? It's pretty tough so I like your idea of slipping a piece of ply between it and the locker.

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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2010 at 7:09pm
Pete,

I assume you mean under the tank? Yeah it sits on the strringers...all 4 of them.

When you say you like the ply idea are you saying for it to rest on the tank and wedge in between or the sandwich idea I mentioned?
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2010 at 10:35am
So I came up with an idea and implemented it last night. I'll post pictures later. I used a 2x6 and then layers of plywood on top of that. The gap between the ski locker and gas tanks changes front to back. The ski locker sits at an angle and the gas tank is flat. I staggered the plywood to make it fit. I used the sticky foam tap I used on the bottom of the tank and the tank brackets to cushion in between the wood and the tank. I also have it extending to the rear seat base and supported on that back edge. It extends to the transom, as well. I fastened it to the rear seat base with screws and the rest of it just rests on the tank. I put two in, one on either side of the tank brackets. It seems like they will work well. If they do, I'm going to fasten some sort of support to the transom for it to rest on back there so the load is shared between the transom, rear seat base, and tank.

I was able to finish installing the rear seat, ski locker and ski locker lid last night. I also placed the new ballast bags in the rear seat base and ski locker. I did a trial run filling them with air and they seem like they will work well. They are slightly bigger than the space so I will have to watch how much I fill them. The bags are 10" x 16" x 70" and 400# each when full. I still need to do some final calculations on the dimensions I'm using, but I believe I was figuring they would end up being around 300-350#. That should put a fair amount of weight back there.

All I have left now is to finish with all the interior panels and get the audio hooked up and we should be ready for our first outing.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2010 at 5:24pm
Here are a few pictures. I'll take some pictures of the rear seat and ski locker lid installed tonight.





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  Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2010 at 10:34pm
Looks great! It is good to see some finishing work. My back and hamstrings are killing me from glassing stringers. I wish I had room for a ski locker on the skier.
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  Quote form&function Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2010 at 11:38pm
So Andy,whats your ballast plan?How much weight can you hide?
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  Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2010 at 10:37am
Awesome!! Great fix!
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2010 at 12:42pm
Keegan,

Where's your gas tank?

Ryan,

I haven't finished the calculations, but I have 3 bags that will be hidden. Under the rear seat, ski locker, and front bilge area will all have bags. My original estimates were 300-350# each. That gives me a total of 900-1050# all hidden. I'm probably going to do a little hard weight somewhere (maybe 200# or so) and play around to see what works. I also have one of those captains chair type bags that is another 250# and a small bag that is 85# I could put on the floor somewhere. So, I can really weight it up pretty good this year.
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  Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2010 at 9:44pm
Thanks for sharing you project with all of us. I use a plastic Turkey Baster to get the transmission fuid out.

Nice work.

Donald
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  Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2010 at 10:48pm
blastin "baby got back" in the culdesac ! haha
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  Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 8:55am
Looks amazing! Is that the interior you pulled out of it or is it new. Looks brand new! My gas tank in against the transom. My 16 ft skier is very lacking in storage, and without making major mods there is not much that can be done about that.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 12:29pm
Thanks guys.

Yeah, "baby got back" is one of my older son's favorite songs. That is so funny to me because it basically came out when I was in High School. I remember bumping that song in my first car.

Keegan,

The skins were reaplced by the PO, about a year or two before I bought the boat. The thing I don't like is they reused a lot of the old wood soe there is some rot in places. Next winter I'm thinking I want to pull the skins and rebuild the frames, then put them back together.

So, yesterday we went to the lake. It went fairly well...had a couple minor issues and some observations. I'll go through them and see if anyone has any insight.

1. Raw water pump - I'm hearing a little noise from the pump. That bearing grinding kind of sound. I'm guessing the pump is nearing the end of its life. Is it possible the belts are too tight (I just replaced them)? Any idea how long I might be looking at before it needs to be replaced?

2. Clicking / popping in the tower speakers - I'm getting a clicking or popping in the tower speakers (It sounds like just the towers, but it could be because they are so amplified...maybe it's in all the speakers). It only happens when I have the power turned on to the helm. The entire sound system is isolated from the engine...seperate battery, etc. I figure I am picking up noise from something. I have the wired remote running near a lot of that wiring and it is possible RCA wires are running near something. I think I have a theory that I want to test. The clicking has a tempo to it similar to the clicking you'll hear on the depth finder pod. The signal wites to the pod are tied together with the remote. I'll test the theory by isolating them or disconnecting one or the other.

3. Ballast - Ballast seems to weight the boat well and the wake looks a lot better than last year. Filling seems to go OK, but draining is tough. I bought a aerator style pump and plumbed it / wired it up myself. I have 1-2' lead hoses on all the bags and the pump has a 2-3 lead hose on one end and a ~10' hose on the other. The pump doesn't seem to want to prime and suck the water. I had to get creative to make it work. Any thoughts? I might just bite the bullet and buy one Simer along with a long enough hose to reach the furthest bag and plumb it all in and wire it up permanent and just fill one bag at a time using the hose.

4. Noise when turning - I had a strange noise when turning when we first got going. I thought maybe I was getting some sort of cavitation. Upon further inspection it appears the swim deck corner is dragging in the water a bit on a hard turn. I don't recall it ever doing this before, but I'm a little hypersensitive to different noises right now.

5. Hard starting - I noticed sometimes the initial cranking of the engine was a little slow. Let's see if I can describe this. Instead of turning the key and it cranking at a fast an constant speed (bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, vroom...running), it is going slow the first couple cranks then picking up (bum.......bum....bum, bum, bum, vroom...running). I remember it doing this every once in a while before but it did it several times yesterday. Is this related to a tight belt situation or indicative of something else?

I'll tell ya, the boat really handles well and feels really solid. My wife noticed the biggest difference crossing over rollers when we turned around, but she said it does feel different. Noise isn't bad. Now that all the interior and floor panels is in, it got quite a bit more quiet.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Keeganino

Looks amazing! Is that the interior you pulled out of it or is it new. Looks brand new! My gas tank in against the transom. My 16 ft skier is very lacking in storage, and without making major mods there is not much that can be done about that.


I'm assuming that you're saying the tank is back there like mine is. But does it not have much room above it? Then the rear seat sits in front of it, right?
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  Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Okie Boarder

Originally posted by Keeganino

Looks amazing! Is that the interior you pulled out of it or is it new. Looks brand new! My gas tank in against the transom. My 16 ft skier is very lacking in storage, and without making major mods there is not much that can be done about that.


I'm assuming that you're saying the tank is back there like mine is. But does it not have much room above it? Then the rear seat sits in front of it, right?


Exactly. The tanks does not even leave enough room for a sandwich. This is the best pic I have on CCF showing the clearance. I am also trying to come closer to a restoration on my boat than a rebuild so any mods that can be seen are out. My interior will be true to the factory colors and design from 1973, except I think I am going to buckle on the vinyl floor and carpet it and the walls instead, since the walls will look all jacked up from grinding away the gelcoat and glassing the new floor to it.

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  Quote akabulla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 2:33pm
When you say the audio system is completely separate from the engine how does the second battery get charged?

Try pulling the RCA's from the amp and see if you still hear the noise. If you don't then it is feedback from the radio if you do it would be a wiring / grounding issue.   If it is the power the easiest fix would be to install a capacitor or power line filter. Not sure if they make a marine grade one.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 3:19pm
Keegan...I see what you mean. No room at all.

Joey,

I put a charger in the boat at home to charge the second battery. No switch, no VSR, no on-board charger hooked to it.

Another friend recommended the pulling of the RCA's. I'm going to try that and try disabling the depth finder and see which, if either, stops the noise.
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  Quote Whitfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2010 at 6:51pm
Okie ~ Thanks for the inspiration... I've been off of CCfan since last fall. Getting ready to pull the cover and finish my engine swap from last season on the boat I bought with a cracked block.

Your build has gotten me excited about getting my stuff back together!!!   Thanks ...

A few thoguhts on your questions...

Originally posted by Okie Boarder

Thanks guys.

1. Raw water pump - I'm hearing a little noise from the pump. That bearing grinding kind of sound. I'm guessing the pump is nearing the end of its life. Is it possible the belts are too tight (I just replaced them)? Any idea how long I might be looking at before it needs to be replaced?

Generally V-belts run using the wedge of the belt so they do not need to be very tight like serpentine belts. V-belts are usually adjusted correctly when you can grab them and flip the belt 180 (they should have some give)

4. Noise when turning - I had a strange noise when turning when we first got going. I thought maybe I was getting some sort of cavitation. Upon further inspection it appears the swim deck corner is dragging in the water a bit on a hard turn. I don't recall it ever doing this before, but I'm a little hypersensitive to different noises right now.

All that extra weight in the bags and the placement of the weight... Boat riding lower?

5. Hard starting - I noticed sometimes the initial cranking of the engine was a little slow. Let's see if I can describe this. Instead of turning the key and it cranking at a fast an constant speed (bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, vroom...running), it is going slow the first couple cranks then picking up (bum.......bum....bum, bum, bum, vroom...running). I remember it doing this every once in a while before but it did it several times yesterday. Is this related to a tight belt situation or indicative of something else?

Could be a few differnt things but not usually not the belts. Generally it is a bad connection batter to starter. In the automovtive field we look for 5 ohms from batter post to starter post. Boat cables are longer but I'd guess to say 20ohms or less. You can also check your battery connections (battery to starter) and see if one is building heat. One excessivly hot is building high resistance due to a bad connection and causing your slow to start issue. The starter draws more amps at first revolution as the amp load drops starter speed spicks up. Could be a starter sylenoid switch but you can measure the ohm load on that too. Usually the slow start is a self perpetitiuating situation where the high amp draw and high heat only make things worse until failure of connection. The high amp draw / low voltage condition is tuff on a starter too.      

84 Dixie 299 Super Skier (350 Chev PCM / counter rotation / Velvet drive) Open Bow.
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  Quote akabulla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 11:32am
That is an interesting idea! So the radio is hooked up to the dash power and the amp just to the battery? How long will the system run off the battery alone?
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  Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 11:33am
if you can flip the belt 180 it's too loose, bad advice.

the engine starting issue can be undersized cables and poor connections, but you need to check the timing first, typical symptom of too much advance.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 12:11pm
Joey,

No,even the radio is hooked to that battery. Nothing audio related is connected to the boat's electrical system.

I figured out the clicking sound. It was noise coming from the depth sounder connection in the dash. It runs close to the wires for the wired remote for the stereo. I moved them farther apart and added some insulation (electrical tape) to the connection and the sound went away. When I had unplugged it, the sound went away too, so I knew that's what it was.

I think I could be having some battery issues. They sat all winter in the garage on the cold floor and I never really charged them or tended them.

The reason I'm thinking this is two problems I'm having. One is the slow start. The other has to do with the audio battery. I was increasing the gain on my tower speaker amp last night and when I turned the volume up, it would cut out. I put a volt meter on the battery and is was 11.9 V. When I would crank the sound up, it would drop to ~11 V. I charged it real good last night and tested again this morning and have the same issue. I'm at about 12.5 V no load and the moment I turn up the stereo the voltage drops to near 12 V directly proportional to the increase in volume.

I have a pretty good load tester at work we use for deep cell batteries in UPS's that I'm going to use on both batteries.

As far as starting, I have one difference from last year...a little longer cables. The negative is probably twice as long, but I also increased the size. It was 1 AWG and I took it to 2/0. It is grounded to a different spot this year and there is a possibility the gqound is weak. I'm going to load test the starting battery too. If they are questionable I'm going to seek replacement. They are only 1 year old and have a good replacement warranty.

We'll see where things go from there.
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 12:13pm
Micheal,

I left out one detail. The noise was noticed without any ballast weight.
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  Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:10pm
Awesome shots! Great work on the rebuild! Always good to see some finished pictures
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  Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:11pm
I think you're on your way to the starting problem, audio interference can be a bitch.

Be warned, non-CC threads are capped at 25 pages!
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:18pm
Thanks guys. So, I'm about to be cut off huh?
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  Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:20pm
Andy,
Have you checked your "file manager" in your member control panel? I'm just wondering how much room you still have!

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  Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard

Andy,
Have you checked your "file manager" in your member control panel? I'm just wondering how much room you still have!


I just cleaned out mine.... He's been using photobucket Pete.... I've been creeping through his pictures!    
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  Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2010 at 1:22pm
Pete,

LOL! Does it only count against me when I actually upload images? Most of what I've done since way early on has been to host on photobucket and just post the img tags.
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