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Another BFN Rebuild

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Keuka View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2010 at 10:36pm
Tim

To help with the water draining, would it be beneficial to add a drain plug on the low point in the center of the transom? It looks like you are planning relief cuts to allow the water to run all the way back.

David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2010 at 10:33pm
I wish! No, each piece of the structure will be cut by hand... the hull is far from consistent so there will be small variations everywhere to get the final product straight and level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2010 at 10:27pm
Are you going to CNC those bulkheads/ribs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2010 at 9:10pm
I took some depth measurements this weekend so I was able to lay out a rough cross section for the ribs and bulkheads. Not much holding us back from ordering materials now.



When I did the cross section of the stringers, I realized that with the taller primaries required by the new engine cradle (without cutting it up, anyways), I realized that the exhaust hoses wouldnt fit between them and the floor if left full height over their entire length. So, I cut them down behind the engine to closer to stock level. No need to waste material there anyways, I suppose. In order to clear where the exhaust hoses enter the bilge, I think the stringers and cradle will have to be notched at the top. The plan is to run 4" hose.



I also have a plan for the battery box drain. Im not crazy about having clamped connections below the floor, so I want to use PVC here as well. A few 22 degree elbows installed between the middle bulkheads should give me some slope so that it self drains.



We've come to the conclusion that no matter what, its almost inevitable that water will find its way under the floor- superior construction techniques and all. Therefore, Im leaving provisions to get the water back out. Like many here have done in the past (namely Joe in his '83), the under floor area will drain together via cut outs in the ribs where they join the secondaries. The front bulkheads will have notches where they join the keel board. Right now, the only compartments that self drain (to the bilge) are the ones on either side of the engine (note the half moon drains in the primaries). Since we want to through bolt the cradle instead of lagging it, the floor over the primaries cant be installed until after the cradle is in- so getting them sealed off from the top would be problematic. Everything else is sealed off from these, and there are 3 strategically placed access points to drain the subfloor area, should water ever get in. There will be no floor from the rearmost ribs back (essentially the last 10", under the gas tank), so any water in these 2 rear cavities can be reached with a pump if the nose of the boat is raised. To remove any water that collects at the low point of the hull in front, a 6" port will be installed on the front wall of the battery box. Right now, I think the access hole will be capped with an inspection plate similar to the one used over the driveshaft packing nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-06-2010 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I would like to officially thank Greg, Gary and BJ on making me itch for another 3 days.


Glad to throw in my 33 cents worth!

Looks great!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 2:23pm
Yeah Elmers, I tried titebond once but it doesn't peel off as nice.

If I had a ton in my face I'd try it, lol. The face puts up with shaving every day so a little glue can't hurt.

I should market it as a mask for men. ha

Imagine Melissa's face when she sees you smearing glue on your face. "Mark Mel told me to do it - I knew he was a little off"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Can I use it on my face?


Tim, I've got just the thing for your face.

Mark, he gets a parafin wax at his weekly salon visits, itch should be gone by Friday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 2:18pm
Thanks Mark! Are you talking like Elmers glue? Cool trick. Can I use it on my face?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 2:15pm
Wow looks great Tim.

I use white glue to get fiberglass out of my hands. Spread on a layer, let it dry, then do another layer, let that dry. Then peel it off. It will pull most of the fiberglass out of your hands.

You could do the same on your arms too, although that will pull the fur out too.

You could also use duct tape although sometimes that pulls skin too. ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 12:54pm
Steve, Gary is correct- you dont want to lay glass on top of the old gel. Theres no strength in it- Ive noticed its fairly brittle. Glass to glass will make a superior bond. Greg and BJ both laid fresh glass down over the hull- we may do the same in certain areas. Removing all the gel gives us unlimited options.

Clark, this isnt really the place to be asking the question, but first you need to fill us in on what youve got. I have no idea what a "SN Skier" is. Is it a Ski Nautique or a Skier? It cant be both. Which engine it has, prop, etc will all play a factor in its top speed as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 1:50am
Steve I think you need to do that to get a good bond. Gel is only cosmetic,plus you know Tim,by the time he's done, the bilge will be as nice as the outside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cslaten33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 12:48am
What should the top speed for a 74SN Skier be?
Thanks Clark Slaten
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RainDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-05-2010 at 12:43am
Tim - What is the significance of removing all the gel from the interior of the hull?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by M3Fan M3Fan wrote:

What kind of regular expeditions/trips are you doing to facilitate DUAL cargo carriers in addition to the hauling capability of the truck? I mean honestly!

.
Joel, he's got too many boats filling the garage he needs someplace to store stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 6:17pm
Gary, thats correct. The wood was actually doubled up under the piece of angle iron... and boy, was it fun removing that piece of wood. Here's the best picture I have of the original assembly:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 5:51pm
That makes it clear Tim. What was that piece of wood for in the center of the transom? Is it for the lift ring?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 5:22pm
Gary, in case my pictures dont illustrate it well, here are a few more.

From Roger (UK):




A crappy diagram using paint:



Im not sure if Roger's did or not, but the wood backing block for the bow eye extended all the way to the vertical steel portion of the lifting ring assembly on our BFN.

Joel, you'd be surprised how often I use the roof boxes. I keep saying that Im going to remove them between ski seasons (I keep both snow and waterski gear up there) but I keep finding uses for them, even in the off seasons (the latest being a set of cornhole boards I built as an xmas present). Its really handy not to have to fold down the seats every time I want to move something more than a few feet long. The smaller box gets used less than the big one, but its already up there and Im already taking the aerodynamic hit, so I figure what the hell. Splitting my time between 2 states ensures that my truck is always full of gear.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 5:01pm
What kind of regular expeditions/trips are you doing to facilitate DUAL cargo carriers in addition to the hauling capability of the truck? I mean honestly!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 4:55pm
I like how Tim is standing back taking the photos and the old man is doing the work again (remember the engine pull).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 4:47pm
Awesome Tim. I didn't realize thats how the lift eye mounts but now you'll never have to think about any old wood again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wacko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 2:58pm
Looking great. Excellent progress considering the weather conditions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-04-2010 at 2:45pm
Okie, not really- we've been underway since early November and we havent ordered any materials yet... youre moving much faster than us!

I would like to officially thank Greg, Gary and BJ on making me itch for another 3 days. And for almost giving me frostbite. It was a balmy 9 degrees in CT yesterday- but now I can say that the grinding is done. All wood (save for the aforementioned gunnel braces) is out of the boat- including the bow eye backer and the rudder port mount. Getting the rudder port out that had been sealed with 5200 this past summer wasnt as bad as I thought it would be- a little heat and a BFH did the job.

Out in the cold:



Is that dust or snow? A bit of both!



A thorough rinse with hot water created the Ice Nautique:



All the gel is off the hull and transom (still a little icy though):





The rudder port mount:



The front lifting ring area:



All tucked in across the back of the garage:



I need to confirm a few more vertical dimensions next weekend, then we can put together a decent material list and get some glass and coosa on order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-03-2010 at 3:44pm
Cool. I may give that a go. I have a couple weeks to think about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Okie Boarder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-03-2010 at 3:21pm
Looking good! You're progressing a lot faster than me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-03-2010 at 1:08pm
i would bet CC doesnt lay the hull in a jig when they set the stringers and probably do close to the same as weve seen on many rebuilds, you are starting fresh again and everthing is custom to its final resting place, such as the engine and cradle...the boat isnt aligning it, you are. i really dont think it is a big concern, but obviously you do want some support under there as a good starting point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2010 at 9:09pm
Mike - Maybe you could make a X shaped frame gage out of 2x6s so you can judge if it warped from removing both main stringers. Then you would have a known reference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2010 at 3:41pm
Mike, the secondary stringers are out of my '67 and the primaries are still in... the hull doesnt noticeably flex when walking in it. The hull didnt flex a bit on my Tique when I had the stringers out (I didnt support that either), so Im inclined to say that the older, smaller boats dont need the extra support. The narrow beam and thick layup allows the hull to maintain its shape, even with the stringers out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2010 at 3:34pm
Tim,

Being as you also have the same boat I am about to dig into, do you believe that would be a safe move with that? I have an original trailer under it, but it is pretty beaten up and I am not sure the bunks are perfectly straight.
Just thinking out loud here. If I were to approach it that way, I would probably jack the boat up with the stringers level both directions, then see where the other parts of the boat sit level/angle wise. Then drop it down to remove the wood, take it outside, have a flap disk party, and then jack it back up to the same angle etc as it was. Does that make sense to attempt? I see myself having to grind a bit in my shop if not, and I REALLY do NOT want to do that at all. I have a couple weeks before the Mustang leaves for a month. I would like to get the stringers replaced in that period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2010 at 3:25pm
Eric, good deal! The more I think about it, the nicer it would be to have the cradle in hand before we start rebuilding- so I may have you ship them to me if thats OK. Thanks again, by the way.

Gary, I hear you- but the thing is that the front lifting ring doesnt look to be mounted to any wood, and the metal thats bedded into the hull looks great. Theres no question its solid. There is a hump behind the bow eye that Im guessing has wood in it though... but Im not 100% sure. I think Ill snap a picture to see what everyone thinks. The foam closest to the floor was relatively dry, Roger- so thats another clue that we may be OK. Of course, the transom wood was wet, and there was no foam to blame for that!

Greg, I may spend a little more time with the grinder today and get the remaining gel off- at least that in the keel. Your rudder port was mounted on a wood base, wasnt it? We had our port apart this past summer to re-seal and Dad swears ours is all glass. With all the 5200 we used putting it back together, Im dreading taking it apart again. Maybe Ill grind a bit to see if I hit any wood.

David, the boat sat ass-high in the water last summer- lots of light under the platform, which you can see in my first post on this thread. Allegedly the BFN was born from the Southwind hull, so Im not sure yours should be much different. The front part of the v-hull is obviously the lowest part of the boat, so it collected the most water. Like I mentioned previously, the most obvious contributors were the failed battery box drains and air vent hoses.

Mike and David- you caught us... we decided not to take any precautions to brace the hull with the stringers removed. We've kept it on the trailer and keep wheeling it in and out of the garage to do the grinding. I have to say that the hull remainded very rigid, right up until we removed the glass that had been used to attach the stringers and ribs. Now it will oilcan slightly underfoot when working inside. Im not too worried about the v-hull flexing front to back, though, and the trailer supports are pretty wide, so side to side flexing shouldnt be much of a factor either. We'll find out if we made the right call once we get it back on the water!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WakeSlayer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2010 at 1:37pm
I wish my SN hull looked like that right now. That looks great!!
I really need a Saturday above freezing so I can do it outside. I have the same question as David. I would prefer to cut all the stringers out, then grind it all at once. I plan to support the boat off the trailer and do them one at a time. I will have to do a little grinding indoors then. If you cut them all out at once, and presumeably moved the boat outside to grind, how do you know you got the boat back to the same shape when you support it?

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