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Another BFN Rebuild

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 12:20pm
Very very nice job Tim!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 1:18pm
Tim,
I'm still keeping a eye on your progress! Look'n great!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 2:00pm
There's jet's flying over your head that don't have that kind of craftsmanship in the repairs. WELL DONE TIM !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 2:06pm
Amazing work even if you did "struggle" with some of the design issues. I hope to see her someday. Dropping the red boat off today to get the timing set. They rebuilt it, they can fire it up the first time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 2:14pm
Thanks guys!

I know the finished product will be well worth the effort. It is nice not having to rush this project... but if you asked me last fall when I though we would be done, I guarantee that I wouldnt have told you August.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 2:20pm

Come on Tim, you guys got 17 days to get it done so your parents can bring it up to Epsom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 2:34pm
Ha, I guess nothing is impossible, but dont count on that happening Larry!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:



Dad removed the inner valvesprings to lighten up the pressure during cam break in. I anticipated needing shorter pushrods with the new cam (which has a larger base circle), but the roller tips appeared to be centered on the valvestem... bonus.



you realy should blue the tips of the valve stem and cycle the engine a couple of times and then measure it and verify that it is actually in the center. With the valve closed the roller should be off center past the center of the stem, then be centered mid travel of the lift and then off center an equal amount at full lift compared to your starting point. So if you blue them cycle three - four times by spinning the crank by hand, removing the rocker and then using calibers measure the blue areas and they should be equal on both sides of the stem, there is a wrtten procedure on Comps cams website I also posted it on another thread as well.

another note you might be a little tight on the motor box, doesn't look like you left much room between the pylon and the opening in the floor for the front lip of the motorbox. With the straight pylon maybe it's not an issue and rubbing on the very bottom won't be an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 3:18pm
Chris, can you see the pictures or not? Your first comment about the valvestems indicates that you cant, while the comment about the motorbox and pylon indicate that you can.

We did blue (sharpie) the valvestems, install the rockers (with preload) and roll the engine over by hand a bunch of times. The picture I posted shows where the roller tip travelled across the stem. I didnt break out the calipers, but you would need them to tell how far off center we are- it is very close. I think we're good here.

The narrow gap at the pylon was done on purpose. The original set up was actually so tight to the pullies that there was a notch out of the floor so the RWP would clear. There was zero clearance, which was a major PITA. We decided to move the pylon forward a bit, and bring the floor right up to the flange. Thats a 5" square base, so with the 2.5" diameter pylon and the 1/4" of floor we left just past the flange, we still have 1.5" of surface for the box to rest on. You can see the wear on the flange where the box sat previously- it was essentially right up against the pole. We have tons of clearance up top due to the straight pylon, so no issue there (we had a boom clamp and a SDBM installed last year, as seen in the first post of this thread).

Where we are actually anticipating issues is on the motorbox width- the EMI manifolds are quite a bit taller and wider than the previous cast irons... we may end up having to split and widen the box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 4:10pm
it's kinda werd, I can't see them but if I quote the thread then it showes up, in this case I had all ready cut that area before so I didn't see the rocker adjustment pictures, soo cool you didn't brunstucky it and crossed your T's and dotted the I's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 4:31pm
Tim regarding the air box, area under the helm, but from memory it looks like yours is straight up and down from what I recall, wasn't it sloped before? If so why the change? I'm just recalling I always used that area on mine as a foot rest more than anything else, and was wondering if maybe you added more vents/tubes forcing the change or it was moved back further thus not needed to be sloped any more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

Tim regarding the air box, area under the helm, but from memory it looks like yours is straight up and down from what I recall, wasn't it sloped before? If so why the change? I'm just recalling I always used that area on mine as a foot rest more than anything else, and was wondering if maybe you added more vents/tubes forcing the change or it was moved back further thus not needed to be sloped any more.

Actually, there was no airbox at all, originally- the floor was as flat as a pancake, all the way to the nose. The kick panel was attached to a few pieces of wood that came out of the floor... I think they were just stuck into the foam! Grinch's '79 BFN had an airbox that spanned the whole width, just like the older boats (my Tique and Skier are set up this way), no idea why this boat was made differently. We decided that a drivers side air box would be beneficial- the area raised off the floor should provide a good (dry) place to mount accessories (like a heater) and also allow an easy way to mount the carpeted panels to hide everything. Leaving the port side open increases the storage capacity under the bow.

To answer your question, the airbox still has an angle. You can see it in this picture:



The vertical panel that the little triangles mount against is actually the rib that goes all the way to the hull... it was strategically located to provide support right at the rear edge of the airbox. The angle might be a touch steeper, but it should still function nicely as a footrest. The newer boats (like dad's '03) have airboxes with vertical rear panels, FYI- but I think the angle will make it more comfortable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 5:19pm
ok I didn't notice the angle pieces and thought most had the half raised area like the 79 did. It'll stay dry as long as the seam between the top deck and hull doesn't leak or the bilge hose does spring a leak, If I recall your pretty tight and rigid where the air tubes are located under the scoop so that should stay good and seal up as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 5:24pm
It would take quite a bit for the air vents to leak enough to cause an issue... the new lines should direct everything to the bilge. The bilge pump outlets are on the transom, so no worries there.

Heres what the under-bow area used to look like:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 5:45pm
All I know it's time to quit goofing off and get it finished someone has to get close to Joe's beast at the east reunion's speed runs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2010 at 5:54pm
Well Joe bowed out of last year's NE reunion, which allowed me to take home a few trophies that essentially already had his name engraved on them. I feel obligated to return the favor this year.

The showdown may have to wait until GL '11.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-04-2010 at 1:13am
Beautiful Tim,truly a labor of love. What I'd like to know is where are you getting the time to do all this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-04-2010 at 2:16pm
Thats a good question, Gary- finding time has been the biggest challenge!

I thought I was done fairing, but decided to do one more coat last night.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2010 at 12:47pm
Tim,
What weight matt and cloth did you use and did you have to use more or less than with wood?

Also, how does the composite campare to wood weight wise?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2010 at 1:27pm
Paul, all of the cloth tapes were 8.7oz. The sheet cloth (used on the floor) was 8.9oz. The biax was USC's 1708, which according to them, "Contains double bias(17oz) stitched at 45degrees along with one layer of 3/4oz mat". The mat used on the top of the floor (for impact resistance) was 1.5oz.

We put 7 layers of glass on the mains (2,2,4,4,8,8,biax), and one layer of biax over the top. We used this same schedule on 2 small ribs and 2 bulkheads. All other ribs/bulkheads got 2/4/8. The secondaries got 2/4/8/biax. The coosa floor got 2 layers of cloth on the bottom, the top got 2 layers as well, plus another layer of mat. The glass over foam section in front got 2 layers of mat and one cloth.

If I were to do this again with wood (no foam), I would have used a similar schedule everywhere, with the exception of the coosa floor. The glass on both sides was really necessary for screw retention with the coosa (foam/fiberglass based), less so for strength. I probably wouldnt have put glass on the underside of a ply floor- but a layer or 2 on top (esp the mat) for impact resistance would still be good. By itself, coosa is quite strong- but the glass makes it much stronger and stiffer.

As far as weight goes, we did a rough measurement with comparable sized pieces, and it showed that the coosa weighs about 2/3 of ply. I expect this will result in a comparable weight to the factory job, even with all the extra ribs, bulkheads and glass. Of course, it will weigh a ton less than last year since everything was soaking wet- plus we're lightening up the engine a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dochockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2010 at 1:09pm
How much invested so far? Awesome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2010 at 7:49pm
Dollars or hours? I guess it doesnt matter since we're not keeping track of either. Id be scared to know the real numbers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Dollars or hours? I guess it doesnt matter since we're not keeping track of either. Id be scared to know the real numbers!


I know what you mean! I have a stack of receipts from all the trips to Ace, Harbor Freight, Lowes, HD, Oreilly, Advanced, etc. One day I might add them all up, but right now it does not really matter and I don't want to know. As for the hours.. lets just say that it was a lot more than 200, but I did a lot more than just stringers. I could maybe do a second boat in 200.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 12:57pm
I just realized that I hadnt posted these yet. As I mentioned earlier, the engine assembly is getting close- just need to set the preload on the rockers, then button up the top end. The plan is to install the motor in the boat once the bilge is finished and accessories are installed. The last things we'll do before breaking in the cam will be to add the EOS assembly lube, install the intake, finish assembling the cooling system, install the wiring harness, prime the oil pump, and fire it up. We're using 30w VR1 for the break in, then plan to switch to 20w50.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:04pm
Why the Ford blue Tim, that doesn't look quiet right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:15pm
Alan, Dad and I couldnt agree on a color... neither of us were a big fan of the OMC blue/green, and the motor is so far from original looking that we ruled that option out pretty quick. We considered a few more appropriate Chevy colors, but neither of us really liked the orange (especially in a blue boat), and the Chevy blue we found was pretty hideous as well. I originally pushed for a neutral color like silver (like the later PCM's), but I lost that battle. The chrome would have looked sort of washed out against silver though, I suppose. We decided to go blue to match the lettering on the hull, carpet, interior, etc... Dad had to make a decision quick as things started rusting soon after they were cleaned. We had some Ford blue on hand so everything got a skim coat to keep the rust away- we figured we could always recoat with another shade of blue if we wanted to later. I guess we got sidetracked with the stringers because we never revisited it... its all Ford Blue now and I dont think either of us want to do any more painting! It actually looks a bit better in person than it does in the pictures- its darker than it appears, and matches the blue on the hull pretty darn well. The chrome looks good against it too. I think I would have preferred something with some metal flake like yours, but it doesnt look half bad as-is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:24pm
Can you spare a little salt for my wounds?   
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"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kytom2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:30pm
The big block Chevy Gods will not smile on you, if you leave it blue. BB Chevys are meant to be orange. Its in the big book on the facts of life. Look it up if you dont believe me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:32pm
Ha, no offense meant towards you at all, Greg. I like orange and I like blue, I just dont care for them mixed together. I know most do, but I even thought the blue logos on the interior of the CCF boat were pushing good taste! Just not my thing. I dont like the Knicks or Syracuse basketball, maybe thats why.

Tom, I do believe you- I guess its just that I dont care! If the boat was any other color besides blue, I might feel differently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kytom2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2010 at 1:55pm
LOL...I had to try!
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