It should be true

Phil,
Scripture does make audacious claims, the biggest of which I would think would be resurrection. Before touching on that audacity, I want to take a moment to speak of Scripture. I think you are correct that much in Scripture is impossible to "prove." The scientific formula just won't allow us to go back to the New Testament story of the woman caught in adultery, who the crowd was ready to stone, but who was "miraculously" saved by Jesus. Here is what Jesus did . . . he removed the woman from a culture stuck in judgment and brought her into a world of forgiveness. This is the New Covenant. Sadly the institutional church often forgets that this is where we live now. We do not live in the world of the Old Covenant, dominated by the law, that was ultimately impossible to keep. What Jesus did for this woman was love her, he loved her unconditionally, meaning that she did not have to perform, to do good, to live up to, to be anything other than what she was. And it changed her life. This is one story of Jesus. In all these stories Jesus was showing that God is the God of love, unconditional love, that God was coming to us and offering us an abundant life where we are . And this is THE point of Jesus' life. Where this gets tricky, for someone like me particularly, (I kind of like seeing the proof myself) is that love cannot be measured, it is not subject to the scientific method. But I know this; I know when I am loved, and I'm not talking about romance. I'm talking about someone who sees my warts, my insecurities, my weaknesses and just will not give up on me, who will always forgive me. And who will care so much for me that they will never, ever judge me (but who will occasionally use 2x4 methods to get my attention). In my mind forgiveness is a miracle, because it is so "un"human. What I am called to do is to love others in this same way that God loves me . . . unconditionally.
The New Covenant is not about what we say about the Bible; it is about God loving the world so much.
When I look to Scripture I don't then look to scripture for proof, I look to scripture and discover love. I don't need the resurrection of Jesus to be scientifically proven; I trust that in the story, in the life of Jesus, that the need I have to be unconditionally loved is being met through this resurrection . . . it's as miraculous as forgiveness is.

There are many who have gone to great lengths to study archaeology, literary and historical critical methods of examining scripture, studies of the authenticity of the Scriptures and their translations . . . which by the way fascinates me. Some very smart people, much smarter than me have of course, studied the crap out of all this stuff. Some walk away, and others embrace. Included in this study are critical methods of understanding the original context of the stories, and the culture in which they first came.
I think your point concerning natural disasters is well taken. "Why" would God "allow" these horrible things. My best answer is "I don't know." I can give you some of my thinking; but man, this is getting really long. Maybe a later time. But I don't think God sends a hurricane to smack people on the coast because of Bourbon Street. Jesus after all had some wine in his day.
For me, it's this, always this, God loves me, and in that love He has saved my rear. So I am able to say, even if the sky should fall and the earth should quake, "I'm finally Ok."
Chuck

Phil,

Just wanted to stop by and say hello.

Carry On

thats what im talking about real people who know that they know that they know ,that was some good stuff chuck even if phill doesnt get it. me personally i should be dead and i look back on life and know that in all my stupidity god has saved my life for a reason,and when i see my 13 year old daughter holding up her hands and worshiping god through song it all makes since to me. nice point andy on prayer

God wrote: Phil, Just wanted to stop by and say hello. Carry On

LOL    I can't believe no one has that username already.

it was amusing,i can take a guess on who it was

phospher wrote: interesting question. It depends on what people are praying for. Therein lies your answer. It isn't a waste when you are praying for God's guidance. Is it a waste for your son to come to you seeking advice? Would you not answer his questions? No, it's not a waste. Does God literally talk to you? Because when my son asks me a question he get's a clear answer with sound and everything his mom might even chime in.

No. I don't get an audible response. I'll say I get very clear answers though.

I'll share a story as an example...

My wife and I had moved to SD when I took a job out of college. We were really wanting to be close to our family in CA, but we really couldn't afford to move and were a little financially strapped. We also had a 2nd mortgage on the house that we couldn't afford to pay off. We prayed about it wanting to know God's will but also wanting to express our desire to be close to the family. I was sending out resume's and making contacts but not a lot was happening. We kept praying that God would help show what it was he wanted us to do. An opportunity for a job came up that I interviewed for. The interview went well and during the interview salary requirements came up. My asking salary was about $5k a year higher than their top end, but they told me they would consider it. More prayer ensued and essentially we prayed very specifically about what we wanted to see happen to understand what God's answer was.

Here is what we needed for things to really fall into place and be able to move...

1. Salary as mentioned above.
2. Moving expenses covered.
3. Some way to pay off the 2nd mortgage or finance it in some other way.
4. Sell our house for enough that we could pay it off and pay the realtor.

I talked to my Dad about #3 to see if they could loan us the money. He couldn't. My Grandma has loaned money to friends and family and charges less than market value interest rates, which helps supplement her income while helping the family member. However, she had all her money out on loans at the time.

So, after some time went by, here's what happened...

1. The company offered me the salary I asked for, with a generous moving expense option (Mind you, I never even asked them for moving expenses).

2. I accepted the job pending us selling the house and moving.

3. We placed the house on the market. In a matter of a couple weeks we had an offer that paid the loan and all expenses.

4. Just before the offer on the house came in, my Dad called. Grandma had one of her loans paid in full and now had the money to loan us.

So, everything worked out quite well and it was quite a blessing to be back near the folks and have them see our family grow. Looking at all the things that had to fall into place and the things we very specifically prayed for, I can only offer up that God very clearly answered our question of "What do you have in mind for us? Stay here or move back to CA?"

im curious as to why you would ask that ,or are you setting me up for another one your viable points as to why my experience was mental and not spiritual.

God,   Need pics!

and just to let you know al found my exhaust flappers at n3 fo 10.50 each,beats the hell out of 25.00 @ skidim or overtons

look at it this way, Faith is like a fresh tune-up for your soul, good thoughts bring good results, a belief comes from within and guides you daily, I am in no way a thumper and i have this same discussion with my neihgbor because he is the furthest man from believing in God......yes, i do respect him because he is older than me, I question Gods existance many times because of war, earthqaukes, floods, I 100% respect your thoughts Phil, the Bible is a manual to guide you thru life to choose the right path between good and evil. I dont think any less or anymore of you because of your beliefs. like i said, you try to rationalize the way things are in todays society and it does make you wonder where God is in the grand scheme of things. if it wernt for the commandments, i wouldve probably killed at least 10 people already, woman?? dont even go there, thats what guides me everyday, when i sit in my car on the way to work, I talk to whats refered to as God, my wife has no idea I pray, but it brings out the good in people

eric lavine wrote: Phil, I didnt read thru so i do have to ask, what do you think happens once we die?

72 Virgins

usually the virgins are fat and ugly quinner, but they do specialize....

Phil, do you believe in the unexplainable?, apparitions, I personally have had encounters and sitting here thinking about still makes the hair raise on my arms

not when 2 people see the same thing, your body creates heat which is energy, that energy will leave your body....whether its in the form of a soul or something to that nature

Phosphor, this is a difficult question to ask and I don't want you to think I am being sarcastic. Were you subjected to some sort of trauma while you were Catholic, perhaps by a trusted member of the church?

Again, not trying to be hurtful, but an honest question.

502Python wrote: Phosphor, this is a difficult question to ask and I don't want you to think I am being sarcastic. Were you subjected to some sort of trauma while you were Catholic, perhaps by a trusted member of the church? Again, not trying to be hurtful, but an honest question.

Ha Ha. No, that's funny though. I wasn't part of the systematic molesting of children. If I was I would be really rich right now cause I would have sued the crap out of that wealthy Church. Funny how god works though (sarcastic). In my opinion, more evidence that god can't do a damn thing here on earth. I think the Catholic church is the worst of all the Christian Churches. When the pope goes to Africa where aids is a pandemic problem and says that condoms could make the problem worse you really have to ask yourself WTF he's thinking.