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Towing Capacity/Vehicle Help?

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    Posted: January-25-2013 at 12:03am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

what is that in U.S. dollars?


Just edited post Australian dollars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

If they only put the diesel in the 2 top models, then up-charge for the diesel option, I'm guessing it may end up in the 50's. I hope not though!


David we have 3 models Laredo, Limited and Overland. The diesel is available as a $5K option on all models.

A V6 Petrol Laredo is $50K on the road $55K with the diesel. They are actually cheaper than a similar Toyota or Nissan by $5K.


what is that in U.S. dollars?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

If they only put the diesel in the 2 top models, then up-charge for the diesel option, I'm guessing it may end up in the 50's. I hope not though!


David we have 3 models Laredo, Limited and Overland. The diesel is available as a AUS$5K option on all models.

A V6 Petrol Laredo is AUS$50K on the road AUS$55K with the diesel. They are actually cheaper than a similar Toyota or Nissan by at least AUS$5K.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 12:10pm
I don't know why Chrysler always takes the cool options out of the price bracket of most buyers. I wish they would build a stripper version of my truck in a regular cab 2wd with the 6.4 hemi :). You could get a diesel liberty with crank windows and steel wheels. Why price the people out of the market that just want the diesel for economical reasons and nothing else. My roomates 12 GC X 6 banger was right at 40k. Very nicely optioned but I'm sure the hemi and overland package would put it right around 50k. Chrysler priced the Dakota out of existence. Why buy a small mid size truck when you could spend 3k-5k more and get a bigger nicer truck with better fuel economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 10:14am
Originally posted by P71_CrownVic P71_CrownVic wrote:

A similar Toyota Highlander Hybrid starts around $47K, gets 28 MPG, and can only muster 3500 pounds for towing.

You would be able to get a great JGC Diesel for much less than that.

I'm not so sure. If they only put the diesel in the 2 top models, then up-charge for the diesel option, I'm guessing it may end up in the 50's. I hope not though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P71_CrownVic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 3:40am
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

I'm very interested in the diesel JGC, am following it closely. I have a feeling the sticker shock will scare me away, but so far I haven't seen pricing.


A similar Toyota Highlander Hybrid starts around $47K, gets 28 MPG, and can only muster 3500 pounds for towing.

And the interior is not nearly as nice as the JGC and it's not anywhere near as capable.

You would be able to get a great JGC Diesel for much less than that.

Chrysler is once again showing that they are the best, most grounded domestic manufacturer. They actually get it. Ford only makes gas guzzling, mediocre appliances that get recalled and GM....well, I'm in no rush at all to replace my 2006 Silverado.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 12:58am
Originally posted by sweet77 sweet77 wrote:



That is your best bet right there.


+1 on the Pilot. We've got a 2008 AWD which tows the Southwind so well you can forget it's back there...

I think it a lot of it also has to do with the trailer. My SW trailer runs along smooth as silk (age & manufacturer unknown). My Century trailer is rather old and crappy and rides accordingly.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2013 at 12:04am
I'm thinking that maybe my best bet is to wait for the newer 3.6 Pentastar JGCs come down a bit in price. I do like the size of the Liberty, I have an 06 KJ body Liberty. And, it's great in the snow, parks easy in the city, is ok/adequate for the amount of towing I do. It's just getting up there in mileage. Agree, the 3.7 V6 is no Rolls Royce on smoothness or power.

After seeing NYNautique tow a San Juan a great distance pretty easily with a Nissan Frontier, that's definitely on my radar for capable trucks that aren't overly huge.

One cool truck the Australians get that we don't get it the newer style Ford Ranger (the reviewer aint bad either ):


I also found this to be an interesting article on non-full size tow vehicles. The 5,000 plus rigs are towards the bottom. Of those, it also seems the previous gen Pathfinders are a good bargain. I'm seeing many of them with low mileage at pretty reasonable prices.
http://www.rvmagonline.com/features/1008rv-top-15-light-duty-tow-vehicles/viewall.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 11:57pm
Add the Ford 300 straight six to the list. The inline six was a great lower power option for a lot of vehicles, decent power, excellent torque, and bulletproof design. I don't know if we'll ever see another inline 6 in a passenger car, SUV, or light truck.

Diesel has a lot going for it, but renewable diesel has some serious challenges. Biodiesel can't exist without subsidies, and with CNG coming on the market at great prices we'll see a CNG infrastructure begin to build out and more CNG options in trucks particularly, cars over time. So, I don't see a rosy future for renewable diesel, sad to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 10:49pm
Believe me David, if I could justify a diesel truck you'd see me in one every day. I've loved every cummins powered dodge we've owned. I miss one a lot in particular.

As you stated above Chrysler built two of the most durable overhead valve inline six cylinders ever made. Slant 6 225 and the 4.0 Liter. The only way you can kill a 4.0 is to not change the oil and just keep adding it until it turns the oil pan into a solid piece of sludge haha. I would like to drive a hemi vs a new diesel gc. Maybe I'll go fake car shopping haha.

You say renewable diesel. I see diesel being the propulsion of choice for vehicles in the future because of the easier outlets for renewable fuel and clearly the economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 9:47pm
All good points Zach. I was a fan of the 4.7 I had in my '01 Durango, really a nice engine though not as economical as it should have been. As for the Chrysler V6 comment, I couldn't agree more. The 4.0 straight six was a really nice engine, I enjoyed it in 3 Jeeps. I would never go for the V6 that replaced it, just a dog. I also meant to say, I test drove a 2012 3.6 Durango and was very impressed, would likely go for that engine over the hemi if I had to choose.

I'm partial to diesels partly because I just like the tech, partly because I like the economy, and partly because of career, I'm involved in a renewable diesel fuel company. So, I'm trying to find my next diesel SUV but if the Liberty keeps running well I might just run it another year, no payment and good mileage mean low cost to run!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 9:36pm
Nice my uncle has an old plow rig 6.5 that runs good after a new injection and lift pump. I'm glad you know all about the diesel liberty. I was thinking like the posts above and I picked up my gas truck due to the good economy of the new hemi. It gets the same average mileage as a unloaded dodge diesel and the fuel and maintenance is cheaper. Clearly it doesn't do quite as well towing mpg but with my less than 6 minute commute to work and anything else in town I need a diesel was not a good option. Diesels are great but when they break it costs lots more to fix. My weekly commute isn't what you would call ideal operating conditions for an hd Diesel engine.

Chrysler has never quite had it together with their v6 engines. I thought they would have learned from the 318 to 3.9. They chopped two cylinders off a good performing v8 made a under powered engine that had lots of inherent harmonic problems. This caused lots of problems especially with the timing sets. Made them stretch alot and make noise. It also made for a very noisy and not smooth running engine. They did the same exact thing with the 4.7 and 3.7. Terrible performer, bad vibrations,, and timing set problems due to stretching. All the oil galleys the 2.7,3.7, and 4.7 engines were to small by design. If normal service intervals are not observed especially with Dino non synthetic it creates lots of oil flow issues. 08 marked the requirement of semi synthetic. Anyways that's my Chrysler 6 cylinder rant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:56pm
I'm very interested in the diesel JGC, am following it closely. I have a feeling the sticker shock will scare me away, but so far I haven't seen pricing. With the power numbers and the 8 speed I have a feeling it will be an awesome vehicle. I've looked at buying a used '07 or '08 JGC diesel but after reading a ton of comments I'm not sure the engine/tranny mating was very good, lots of people commented that the highway rpm's were 2,600-2,800, kind of ridiculous in a diesel with lots of torque and made for a noisy ride with less than stellar mileage. My Liberty turns 2,200 at 73 mph, quiet and smooth.

Zach, I've got an aftermarket tune and transmission controller, the EGR is defeated, I clean the MAF sensor regularly, so I'm up on the common problems with the Liberty diesel. I know it's prone to issues but feel I've gotten my money's worth out of it and will run it till I find something I like better or until it dies, and I'll keep you posted on which happens first!

Just because I don't have enough projects (can't keep up with any of them at this point!) I'm looking at a 1993 Chevy 6.5 diesel dually club cab with plow, tranny is shot but my friend and I have a lot of 6.5 experience so I may buy it as a project tow/plow vehicle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:18pm
after a season of use with our 08 liberty 3.7 towing the 200 sport (4500 lbs) I will say the Liberty can get the job done but I would not recommend it. I use it because it's what we have right now but it will be replaced in the not too distant future.

Surprisingly it gets between 13-14 mpg towing as long as I stay below 60 and that's in the flatlands. If I get in any terrain it really has to work and I don't think I want to push it that hard.

Suspension and braking wise the Liberty handles the big boat fine just doesn't have the balls to be a long haul option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:15pm
Good points Lewy, those things would scare me too. Sounds like Oz will have a longer history for these diesels, so let us know how they hold up!

The US JGC looks to be getting a new 8sp auto on all models for '14.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:10pm
I looked at the new Jeep Cherokee in Australia when that new diesel was released about 12 months ago. Previously they were using a Mercedes diesel engine which was a good engine. The new engine is built by a Fiat based company VM Motori (177kW and 550Nm same specs as Tr mentioned but metric) it still used the old 5 speed auto. The auto is due for an update which is supposed to happen either late this year or early 2014.

I was most impressed by the test drive the engine was easily best in class for similar vehicles in Australia but in the end decided to wait for the better auto and to see if the new engine had any reliability issues.

The only thing that worries me about these new high tech diesels is service costs and reliability issues out of warranty. The turbos and high pressure diesel pumps are very expensive items.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:58pm
You are right Tim. The previous GC diesel was a good option. I've not heard who the manufacturer will be for the new motor(have not took the time to look could ask my uncle). I would love to see one or take one for a spin. Both the previous GC and Liberty were hot rods when matched even with the 4.7 v8.

The diesel Liberty either runs like a top or has more problems than you would ever expect. We had multiple that couldn't be fixed at dealers. Chrysler was invloved in all of these and nothing could be done after months or working on them. David, all I can tell you about your Liberty after seeing the insides of many is open that sucker up, get it hot, and make it work to get the soot out! Egr valves are the devil on diesel applications. EPA says: Sure lets pipe soot back through the intake system of turbo diesel engine....... nice idea.


If they offered a diesel option in a half ton like my truck I would be very interested in a test drive and possible purchase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:56pm
Wtf is up with the fuel mileage killing awd though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Only a little OT, but sort of in the same family... anyone else see that the diesel option returns on the '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee? 3.0L TDI, 240hp and 420lb-ft. 20/28mpg on the 4x4, tow rating of 7400 lbs. Those are some impressive numbers.


My brother has been following that one closely. It sounds like it's going to be awesome. I guess you have to get one of the upper level trims to get the diesel, but still very cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:38pm
Only a little OT, but sort of in the same family... anyone else see that the diesel option returns on the '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee? 3.0L TDI, 240hp and 420lb-ft. 20/28mpg on the 4x4, tow rating of 7400 lbs. Those are some impressive numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:32pm
David, As a fellow 3.7 disliker haha you would be amazed with the 3.6 as opposed to the 3.7. Great and I mean Great fuel economy in a full size suv. 2012 GC. My roomate regularly sees 25-26mpg highway on trips to Chi town. I'm not sure what he averages for a work week around town. To top it all off it more than gets out of it's own way and quietly to boot! I would tow my boat most anywhere with that 3.6 other than in very steep mountain areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:14pm
I'm a fan of my Liberty because it's a diesel, tows really well. I saw up above that I posted in April wiht 108,000 miles, now have about 126,000, still running very well.

I know a few people commented on the gas Liberty, and I'm pretty sure the tow rating is 5,000 lbs., but for any distance I don't know that you'd be happy towing with the 3.7 engine. I'm with Zach, it's just not an engine that I find enjoyable to drive, kind of noisy and lacking power, seems like there should be more bang from a 3.7 liter engine. Just my opinion from driving a few of them, I've never owned a 3.7.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:02pm
Brian, I have been in lots of Liberties and Nitros(service advisor at two Chrysler dealers and my dad was a Chrysler service manager). I'm die hard Mopar but I hate the 3.7. My mom bought a bran new Nitro in 07. They are great in snow and great if you don't mind a noisy under powered 6 cylinder and don't want to get anywhere in a hurry. It impressed me how well it handled the boat from a suspension and driving standpoint. Brakes were great. The engine is the sore point. The interior and associated pieces i.e. Radio etc. are wonderful on the 2011- Chryslers of any sort. That 07 my mom had averaged 15-16 mpg in town and got between 20-22 highway depending on wind. Never towed anywhere with it besides to the ramp and the house so I dont have highway data for you. I assume it would require to be driven in tow haul mode to prevent it from going in and out of over drive. We alwas get the trucks out for the long ride home in spring and fall.

One of my close friends bought one reecently (2012) who is a notorious speed demon. He had a kid and wanted better economy than his 07 Hemi GC. I thought he would hate the engine but he says he doesn't mind so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2013 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Best Value Tow Vehicle: Jeep Liberty:


What do you Liberty guys think of end of the old Liberty and the coming of the new Liberty(or Cherokee)?

I've been eying a slowly shrinking supply (about 7) of brand new locally available 2012 Libertys with all the factory tow stuff:
Hitch
Wiring
Anti Sway
Heavy Engine Cooling
Power steering Cooler

They unfortunately have a bunch of expensive extras like leather and info-tanement stuff that I don't really need. They've dropped from 29kish to around 23k.

I'm on the fence, cause it looks like the new model coming towards the summer will be car based, so it will likely be less tow capable.

At the same time, it's supposed to get much better mileage, and be better in most other ways, so that may really kill the values of the 2008-2012 generation.
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That is your best bet right there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2012 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Best Value Tow Vehicle: Jeep Liberty:

I long ago stumbled across the Jeep Liberty, it is a great value; price verses mission. Typically entry level 4WD is right around $22k NEW. They weigh in at about 4000 lbs, heavier then they look, so as BoatDr indicates you have a substantial amount up front. It's rated for towing at 5000lbs, and 500 lbs at the tongue. Its 3.7l V6 puts out 235 ft-lbs of torque and 210 HP. I see about 20 mpg (hiway) about 10 mpg with the trailer. I know Alan (81Nautique) has pulled his 81 with the Liberty as well. I have had two of these, drove the first one almost 200k miles and the air conditioner went bad, the fix was more then the car was worth.

I've got an '06 Liberty CRD, great little tow machine, 190 HP and 335 ft.-lb. torque with the 4 cylinder 2.8 diesel. Weighs around 4,400, a bit more than the gas version. A 4,000 lb. load is a breeze to tow with it. 27 mpg mixed summer, 24 winter, can get over 30 mpg all highway. Not sure of the towing mileage, I haven't towed enough long distance to get an accurate read on it.

I won't go into it more, was advised in another thread that these tend to fail at some point so don't want to recommend it and have someone end up with problems. I've got 108,000 miles on it and it runs great so far.


I pulled the 200 sport (4500 lbs)about 78 miles yesterday with the Liberty, actually did pretty good except for one direction was heading into about a 25 mph head wind. We had the Z5 bimini up and must have been like a big sail. I have a scan Gauge in the jeep and we got 11.1 into the wind and 13.4 with the tail wind. I guess if we average 12 mpg I would be happy that. Long highway hauls are still going to be a bit much for this vehicle though.
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Originally posted by bnhbutts bnhbutts wrote:

Pete - I found a Land Rover Discovery - 2003 for sale, but I've heard so many negative things about repairs and the costs of those repairs that it makes me shy away.



Tim: I suppose an 2005 Acura MDX 4x4 would foot the bill too. Thoughts?

I own a 99 range rover. It shares a lot of parts with the discovery. Good solid heavy tow vehicle. But whoever is telling you stories about repairs are not lying! Electrical problems up the wazoo and replacement parts aren't cheap!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2012 at 1:53am
Originally posted by skutsch skutsch wrote:

Best Value Tow Vehicle: Jeep Liberty:

I long ago stumbled across the Jeep Liberty, it is a great value; price verses mission. Typically entry level 4WD is right around $22k NEW. They weigh in at about 4000 lbs, heavier then they look, so as BoatDr indicates you have a substantial amount up front. It's rated for towing at 5000lbs, and 500 lbs at the tongue. Its 3.7l V6 puts out 235 ft-lbs of torque and 210 HP. I see about 20 mpg (hiway) about 10 mpg with the trailer. I know Alan (81Nautique) has pulled his 81 with the Liberty as well. I have had two of these, drove the first one almost 200k miles and the air conditioner went bad, the fix was more then the car was worth.

I've got an '06 Liberty CRD, great little tow machine, 190 HP and 335 ft.-lb. torque with the 4 cylinder 2.8 diesel. Weighs around 4,400, a bit more than the gas version. A 4,000 lb. load is a breeze to tow with it. 27 mpg mixed summer, 24 winter, can get over 30 mpg all highway. Not sure of the towing mileage, I haven't towed enough long distance to get an accurate read on it.

I won't go into it more, was advised in another thread that these tend to fail at some point so don't want to recommend it and have someone end up with problems. I've got 108,000 miles on it and it runs great so far.
'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote P71_CrownVic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2012 at 10:11pm
All I see is three portholes on a car that, if you insist on doing port holes, should have 4.
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