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oil plan....what would you do

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Swatkinz View Drop Down
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    Posted: July-21-2010 at 9:40pm
I have an oil leak at the oil drain plug. For whatever reason, the PO replaced the quick oil drain hose with a regular oil plug. Well, it leaks and over the winter, I want to pull the engine and repair/replace. If this were you folks, would you attempt a helicoil type repair or replace the oil pan. I definitely want to use the quick drain hose setup when I do this. I only want to pull the engine once and want to get it right even if it means spending a little more on the front end. What do ya'll think?
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
Excalibur 343
2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs)

Former Malibu owner (07, 09)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2010 at 9:47pm
Steve,
Until you pull the engine and get a close up look at what is causing the leak, there's no quick answer. It could be stripped threads or even the boss has ripped off the pan itself. Maybe the pan is even rusted through??? Since the old days of the marine cast iron pans are long gone, the oil pan rusting through is common.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2010 at 10:24pm
Steve,
Can't wait for White Lake!!! (now that my silver is up & runnin)
Don't pull the engine for that!(We) can stop that leak. Can you make it to the fall? If not drain the oil & check the condition of the pan. It may have a bunch of sealant goobbering it up. Clean it up and install your new quick drain, more than snug but leave room to tighten it up if you need to. Worse comes to worse. We'll talk and I'll send you the rite stuff to seal it, even if the threads are striped. So at most you may have to change the oil twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2010 at 11:02pm
Waterdog,
I like the way you're talking. The thing I can't figure is why the PO removed the quick drain hose and replaced with the drain plug to start with. He's been helpful, but never really provided a good answer for that. He's an older gentleman who owned the boat for several years and I'm thinking that maybe he just cannot remember. I tightened it up slightly not long ago, but that didn't help at all. BTW, I still talk about your Silver to my wife all the time. I'd love the opportunity to own one someday. Can't wait to see it in the water next year at WL.

Pete,
What do you mean by maybe the "boss ripped off"? What is a "boss"? Although it could be a rust issue, based on the appearance of the engine, boat and everything else, I would find it hard to believe that rust is the cause. Maybe so, but to me it seems unlikely.

At any rate, I'm much more in favor attempting the sealant method if there's such a sealant that exists that can be applied with a quick drain set up that is effective. Not really looking forward to removing the engine for just an oil pan change. I personally think that it was maybe a thread situation with the original quick drain hose that was compounded when he attempted to just use the standard oil pan drain plug



Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
Excalibur 343
2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2010 at 11:42pm
The oil pan is a flat peice of sheet metal, stamped into shape with tons of pressure. The boss / bung is a "nut" welded or crimped to the drain hole to give it thickness for the threads. If its crimped it can be damaged easier than welded. But maybe there was a problum with the quick drain so they put a drain plug back in. I put a new one on the ski-tique cause the old one was showing it's age.
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Swatkinz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2010 at 11:49pm
well, it seems that it'd be hard to spot a problem with the boss/bung w/o removing the oil pan. Does that prohibit us from solving the problem with the sealant you referenced?
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
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2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 12:35am
I can't see your oil pan from here, but if it's like mine the drain is on the lowest part (sump) l/h side. It's not real hard to get to. Do ya think it can wait till fall, how bad is the leak ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartyMabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 12:42am
Steve, Yes the 'boss' is welded inside the pan.If it is stripped you can get an oversized adapter, from NAPA or CarQuest,to mate with the oil drain kit. Probably why the PO took it off, at times they are a pain to drain! The trick I learned was that I put 'air' from my compressor into the dipstick tube, with the oil cap still on the valve cover, and blow air through it. It empties 5 quarts of oil in less that a minute that way! My 'oil' pump that I bought for $50, will sometimes work and sometimes it 'sucks' literally.

Marty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 1:00am
Marty,
I'll never let the oil trickle drain over nite again. Thanks!!!
Steve,
I think your leak is very fixable. (from here)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 11:21am
Hhhmmm Is there a nylon washer inplace under the plug? O-ring style maybe? if you don't see a washer thats why it's leaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 11:44am
Waterdog,
It's an annoyance leak. I bought the boat in April and have put 35 hours on it. During that time, it's leaked at most 1/2 quart. It can wait till fall, but I definitely want it fixed. I have some oil absorber pads underneath the leak, but it's still pretty impossible to keep the bilge clean with that going on. Thankfully, my boat doesn't take on much water from the packing or otherwise so I'm not dumping (like BP) in the lake.

79,
I've never had the plug out so I don't know. That would be the ideal easy fix. I had though about waiting until fall since that would give me plenty of Saturday time to look at it more closely and it would be do for an oil change then anyway, but I may do it prior to that in hopes that it is simply a washer as you suspect.

Marty,
I too like the idea of the air hose in the dipstick too. Seems like it'd make quick work of the oil change. (When I get the drain hose reinstalled that is)

Thanks guys, as i mentioned in the original post, this is something that I thought may be a much bigger job (I.e. engine removal required) and may need to wait until the fall. Your suggestions lead me to believe that it can be at least troubleshot much more easily and perhaps I can get it to stop leaking prior to the end of the season
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
Excalibur 343
2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

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Former Malibu owner (07, 09)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-22-2010 at 12:07pm
If it has the nylon washer it will be larger than the flange of the bolt head so you should see it visually, if not i would bet that's the source. I agree waiting till an oil change is fine, but might as well just install the quick drain enstead. I would venture to say the PO sucked out the oil through the dipstick and didn't using the quick drain, especially if it really didn't have to be winterized and was on a boat lift or in the water all of the time it would be easier that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 5:39pm
well, i drained the oil today and had a closer look at the oil drain plug and the drain hole itself. The plug itself looks like some sort of self tapping larger sized plug. Here are a couple of poor photos of it.





You can't make much of the photo of the drain plug hole, but here goes anyway:



Now the previous owner told me that he put this drain plug in there b/c he never could get the quick drain tight enough (not to leak). I'm guessing he felt that this new drain plug would do the trick. Now I'm uncertain of what to do. I have no reason to think that the quick drain hose won't leak if I put it on and I know for a fact that the drain plug will leak when I reinstall it. Getting that quick drain hose back on looks like it could be a real chore. What would you folks do? I'm 99% certain that the rear main seal is leaking as well. I'm not thru with my season yet. Options:

1. reinstall the known leaking plug, refill with oil, expect the same annoying oil leak and enjoy until offseason when engine can be removed to fix RMS and oil pan/drain plug leak

2. reinstall quick drain hose and expect a leak. If no leak then maybe RMS can be replaced w/o removing engine.

Anybody got any sealant or other suggestions on how I can stop the leak with either the drain plug OR the quick drain hose (obviously, I'd like to put the quick drain hose back). If I can stop this oil drain plug leak, I would prevent having to pull the engine although the RMS will still need to be replaced.

Also, how long can this engine sit with no oil in it or filter on it? How quickly must I act?
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
Excalibur 343
2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

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Former Malibu owner (07, 09)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 7:00pm
Steve,
I suspect the PO had issues with the threads in the pan and the reason the quick drain hose leaked. He then used one of the over sized self tapping repair plugs. Even though the actual sealing of the drain is done with a sealing washer both on the plug or the hose, you may have problems due to the oversize threads. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance with the hose.

There's nothing wrong with using one of the vacuum extractors and in fact I feel it's easier. Plus, the boat doesn't need to be on the trailer to use it. It works in the water or the boat house!! When I got my Tique, it had a hose so I gave it a try and it turned into a big mess. The boat was hanging in the boat house so I had to run a plank across the slip to support the drain container. It ended up falling in the water!! I thought for awhile, I'd have to report a environmental spill to the EPA!!

I just changed oil in the Tique and actually timed how long it took to suck the oil. Pull the dip stick, stick the hose down the tube, give the extractor a couple of pumps and two minutes later the oil was out. Try to do it that quick with the drain hose!!!

The "quick" drain hose is not a truthful description!! Get the vacuum extractor and you can use it on other things besides just the boat!!!

BTW, marinas use the extractors! The hoses are to much of a PITA to use!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 7:22pm
thanks Pete, comments/suggestions noted! How long can this engine sit with no oil/filter?
Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200
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2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2010 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by Swatkinz Swatkinz wrote:

How long can this engine sit with no oil/filter?

Steve,
It's the same as a winter layup or extended storage. In those situations, most of the oil drains back to the pan and just sits there. I however would screw on a filter even if it's the old dirty one. I wouldn't want to keep those ports open for very long.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiralhelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2015 at 11:22am
Just wondering how this ended up and what you did to fix the problem? I have a leak from the pan to quick drain connection. about 1 qt over 3 wks. I haven't tried tightening it as I wanted to do some research first.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2015 at 1:41am
Originally posted by MartyMabe MartyMabe wrote:

The trick I learned was that I put 'air' from my compressor into the dipstick tube, with the oil cap still on the valve cover, and blow air through it. It empties 5 quarts of oil in less that a minute that way! My 'oil' pump that I bought for $50, will sometimes work and sometimes it 'sucks' literally.


Marty:

I like the air forced oil extraction method. Any issues with over-pressurizing the crankcase?   I would hate to blow out an oil pan gasket...

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