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86 SN rebuild

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2011 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Ranger Ranger wrote:

I just spoke with U.S. Composites and according to them. I was doing too much too fast. Simple enough. I just need to slow down.

Jeff


For those of us taking notes, can you give a rough idea of how long you were waiting in-between layers, and how long USC recommended?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2011 at 5:32pm
Yeah, Im curious what that means. Putting on as many layers as possible before the resin cures is a good thing- it gives you a chemical bond in addition to the mechanical bond. If you roll every few layers, you should be able to get most of the air bubbles out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2011 at 8:26pm
I agree with Tim with the bonding but you do need to let the previous layer resin "kick" slightly so it's starting to harden up before you lay in a layer over it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-23-2011 at 11:54pm
U.S. Composites said that you should limit the lay up to two layers at a time. However, if you want to do it all at once, let it kick (like Pbrain Said)before each subsequent layer.

I didn't let it kick, so the resin and glass became so thick the air bubbles couldn't get out. I did roll it out on each layer and it look as though there were no air in the layup. The bubbles started to show once it kicked.

So, I can still get it all done at the same time, I just need to let it kick between layers or do 2 layers at a time.

You live, you learn and so it goes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2011 at 12:11am
I have to agree with Tim and Pete since they're both Poobies. I started my learning curve on the slow side and learned what worked as I went. Temp, humidity, hardener, and your wife's general attitude will affect hardening time...in more ways than one!

I spent a good bit of time on the phone with Billy discussing the importance of 'keeping it green'(Thanks again Doc!). All that means is the difference between chemical bonding and adhesion. When you're planning to work on a stringer, try do do it all in the same run. Maintain the tack between the layers and it cures as a unit. Otherwise each layer is only glued to the next.

In smaller and less structural areas, 2,3, or even 4 layers in one 'set' makes good sense.

And I haven't seen much talk about amine blush in my e-mail. Yall must have that figured out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-24-2011 at 12:57am
On my first stringer I had problems with bubbles in between layers and that is when I started throwing down multiple layers at once totally wet. The stitches on the edge of the tape creates a raised area that is difficult to top without creating a bubble if you do it one at a time. WHen it all went down together wet the layers meld together and I had less of a problem with bubbles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 7:24pm
It looks as though the recent rain has canceled all baseball games for the weekend. So, it looks as though I might get a full day to work on the stringers. I'm hoping that I have something to report on Monday.

Also, I want to share a story from last weekend. My son and I took off late Saturday to fish. On the way home early Monday morning (I was going to drop him off at school on the way home) we ran into a rain/snow storm coming through Campo. I slowed down to about 45, when my truck started sliding from the right lane across all lanes towards the left side of the freeway. I could see my bass boat out the side window trying to pass us. I threw it in 4 wheel drive trying to gain control. I then started spinning with the boat still in tow. But this time we were sliding to the slow lane again. Again, I could see the boat out the side window. I told my son to hang on, as we went off the freeway (slow lane side) and hit a huge hill. Thankfully we hit a hill, because there are lots of cliffs in this area. Once we hit the hill, I gassed it and jerked the boat out of traffic. Now we were sitting on the right side of the freeway, facing the wrong direction, but safe from traffic.

The boat is what saved us. It came around and hit the right rear quarter panel, but as the bow hit the truck, it stop the trailer from completely going around. If it was a flat bed, we would of been toast.

Pretty scary.

Amazing, no damage to the boat and only $1,500 damage to the truck.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 7:43pm
pics or it didn't happen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 7:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 8:24pm


Sure that wasn't from the wife's latest trip to the grocery store? Glad everyone is OK, good driving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skicat2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 8:38pm
you got lucky on that one... Glad all is ok..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 9:21pm
Your're right, we got lucky. Real lucky!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-25-2011 at 10:36pm
And I just went to traffic court yesterday because I rear ended someone due to ice on the road. It does happen, but still, it was my fault for not driving correctly for conditions. I feel we've all done it!! In my case as well as most, it's really a "wake up call".

BTW, I got off because the person I hit didn't show up in court!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 12:01am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

In my case as well as most, it's really a "wake up call".

What, that fender bender you had a few years ago wasnt enough of a wake up call, Pete?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt R. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-26-2011 at 7:30pm
In discussing the layups whether you use cloth, mat, bio...does it matter how thick the final layup is compared to the factory that was a 1/4 inch thick on the stringers? Does it have to be that thick?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2011 at 7:44pm
We are still moving along, just a lot slower than I would of expected. I ground out the air bubbles, reglassed the area and then laminated the first layer of biax. I also have the other side of the stringer almost finished. Since I have slowed down the process, I'm not getting any air into the layup. I'll post some pictures when I have something interesting to show.

Also, I know I asked this before, but when do you guys suggest think it would be alright to set the hull back on the trailer. After the stringers are glassed, but before the floor? or would you wait until the entire floor is done.

I could get a lot more done if I could move it in and out of the garage. My instincts tell me to wait until the floor is in, but I'm hoping that someone can convince me that after the stringers are glassed, the hull will be strong enough.

Thanks for the help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2011 at 10:29pm
Jeff,
I see no reason you can't put the boat back on the trailer after you get all the stringer work done. Go for it!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2011 at 12:28am
You're just the one I needed to hear from.

Thanks, After I get the stringers glassed, I'll drop it to the trailer.

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79SNbrady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2011 at 9:29pm
im about to order my fiber glass stuff for my boat but how much mill fiber and phenolic microballons should i order? 5qts of both seems a little to much
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2011 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by 79SNbrady 79SNbrady wrote:

im about to order my fiber glass stuff for my boat but how much mill fiber and phenolic microballons should i order? 5qts of both seems a little to much


The microballons are for fairing. I only used cabosil which does not sand easily, but i did not really have to do any fairing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79SNbrady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2011 at 11:50pm
what is fairing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2011 at 11:51pm
I went through 1-1/2 of the 5qt containers of milled and a 10lb bag of the 1/4 chopped strand.
Along with the cabosil I added the milled fiber to the resin a lot of times for the added strength. I could have gotten away with using less of the 1/4" chopped but I used the milled all the time.
I didn't use the micro-ballons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79SNbrady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-11-2011 at 11:56pm
i was gonna order that chopped strand but can i just use the epoxy mat tape instead of the chopped strand, as long as i pull apart what i need from the roll of epoxy mat? sorry for the thread jacking. ill move over to my thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2011 at 1:46pm
Well, we are still moving along. The starboard main and secondary are finished with the exception of the biax top cap. The more we do, the better we get at the layups. I sure like using the biax, it really lay's down nice.

I'm still having a tough time doing the entire layup at once, however. Not that there isn't enough time, my back just won't last that long. After a couple of hours working on my knees, I have to get up and out of the boat for a while.

I'll try to take a few pictures and get them posted within the next day or two.

Jeff

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 1:20pm
As we are moving along, I'm wondering what others are doing with the drain holes in the stringers. My intentions are to put a layer or 2 of cloth in them. But what are others doing? I'm sure a layer of cloth is going to be a challenge, but I don't want any uncovered wood.

What do you think?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swatkinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Ranger Ranger wrote:

As we are moving along, I'm wondering what others are doing with the drain holes in the stringers. My intentions are to put a layer or 2 of cloth in them. But what are others doing? I'm sure a layer of cloth is going to be a challenge, but I don't want any uncovered wood.

What do you think?

Jeff


Could PVC or another bondable type pipe be halved and then epoxied inside the exposed wood stringer surface?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 2:15pm
Epoxy *might* stick to the PVC, but Im not sure what the point of doing that would be.

The purpose is to completely seal off the wood from any water contact. Wrapping the underside of the drains with a layer or 2 of cloth seems like a good idea to me. Its obviously too late now, but doing this before the stringer goes into the boat would make this a simple task. Sorry to rub it in- just thinking out loud!


If you cut your piece of cloth like this, it may not be too tough to install.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 2:57pm
Thanks TRBenj, I was thinking of doing it exactly like you posted. But I'm sure it will be a pain. Yes, I should of done it prior to bedding the stringer. I actually thought about it, but forgot to do it. (by the way, I really appreciate the time you spend on drawing it out. It makes it much easier to understand what you are saying)

Is this how you did yours? I'm thinking two layers, maybe even narrow strips so that it's easier to do.

As far as PVC, I think it would be more difficult at this point, but I appreciate the input.

Thanks for the replies,

Jeff

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 3:07pm
Jeff,
Cut your glass just as Tim pictured. Insert it in the half moon cut out along with a balloon. Inflate the balloon and it will hole the lay up in place inside the cut out.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2011 at 3:15pm
I havent tested this method myself, but it seems to make sense. I plan to use it on the next wood stringer build that I do.   We were comfortable enough with coating the coosa with resin that we didn't feel glassing the drains was necessary. Narrow strips works too- just overlap the edges. I think if you get one good layer of glass down everywhere, thats sufficient.

Cool idea on the baloon, Pete!
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