ZDDP....ZINC

Tim I cant open the link

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It's an add for "Camgard" Mostly factual, a little bias.

Combustion gasses degrade engine oil more than just about anything. Total Acid Numbers (TAN) is a huge thing. Always change the oil often and before a long lay-up. Oil with a TAN over 2 or so will acid etch the metal it comes in contact with, soft metals more (bearings and the cam). High zinc oils are what we use in these boats to protect the soft case hardened cams from valve spring pressure.(high zinc being over 1000 parts per million) Most diesel oils are satisfactory and most racing oil.
If you'd like I can check your oil TANs and run a Spectro analysis of 20 constituants on your oil when you change it. I only need a small mid-stream sample. I do mine when I change the oil, I've offered to do it before for all CCF's but no one has taken me up on it. (I'm a certified joint forces oil anaylsis operator)                            

Gary,
Sure, check my e mail address and shoot me a note. I'll send ya a couple of sample bottles.
I can check for tin,lead,copper and do a check for soluble water too.
With a base line and samples at oil change you can track engine wear.

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behindpropeller,
I looked in your profile are you realy 99 ?
Your post IS worthy and good information. Just a grain of salt is needed. (flavor to taste)    

Unfortunately this info appears to be old and outdated.

Rotella, and VR1 are not the same oils they used to be only a couple years ago.

behindpropeller wrote: boat dr wrote: Tim, we call it "snake oil" down here.Roller motors do not need the high levels that flat tappet motors need. This topic has been " beat to death" lottsa time spent researching the role played by the ZDDP's and the easiest way to avoid lobe wipe out.Do a search but run in your motor what you like, just don't spread stupid to the newbies. Oil is cheap Cams are not Valvoline VR 1 Shell Rotella T 30 weight Shell Rotella T 40 weight These oils have the needed % of ZDDP to protect your cam and lifters.... Obviously you didn't read the link. It specifically talks about flat tappet motors.

Obviously you do not under stand the term "snake oil"! Words on a piece of paper don't make it so. Why not buy an oil that has all the additive already in the bottle.


Horkn, no mention of these oils being the SAME.
The order listed them the easiest to purchase. The VR1 can be bought in any Auto Zone, the Rotella T single grades a little harder.
Shell and Valvoline are two separate refineries, hence two different names with different oil products. The common being they have the highest levels of ZDDP.

I use Rotella T 15W40 in my boat, Allis Chalmers diesel tractor and my Dodge diesel Cummins. I buy it at wally world in the 2 1/2 gal size.
( The Cummins takes 11 qts.)I test it with Specto analysis and it is always around 1200 parts per million zinc.(that's a good #)
Gary I'll e-mail ya from work tomorrow that way you'll have my work e-mail.

PCM wants 15-40 and now the rotella 15-40 has been independently verified at 1200--perfect. That's what i'll be using. Thanks for that info, waterdog. If the levels change, let us know.

Yes, VR1 and rotella are easily found. Until I see a comprehensive list breaking all oils down by ZDDP levels, I don't think anyone really has the full answer.
Yes, it's commonly known that the 15w40 rotella has, or had high levels of ZDDP.
As far as a napa seminar there are some questions. First, who sponsored the seminar? Were any oil companies sponsors? If so, it should make you wonder. Also, where was their data compiled from? Sources would be good. Lastly, while Napa is possibly known for being arguably better for knowledge than other auto part stores, keep in mind they are still an auto part store and therefore not the experts at all things automotive. Keep in mind that many auto store employees rotate from one chain to another. I have heard some ridiculous things out of my local napa employee's mouths as of late.

All of that aside,

2 questions arise that are huge. But obviously there are many other questions.

1, how much ZDDP is necessary for our motors to combat premature wear?
2, does using diesel oil with it's specific cleaning properties in gasoline motors negatively affect gas motors?

I've seen a lot of gasoline motors ( recreational and motorcycle) using rotella in them with great results to not worry about question 2. Yes, even in wet clutched motorcycles that are more picky about oils than our automotive based inboard motors.

Until we have the results of how much ZDDP is really needed, and what exactly every oil has in it for zddp levels, the best we can do is use the oil that we think is good, and has higher levels of zddp.

The oil lab here is standardized every 24 hrs and must pass a blind test of 4 samples every 30 days or we get de-certified. "Our" standards are strict "Aircraft Quality" "We" use 1000 ppm zinc as a thresh hold. 1400 ppm zinc is to much... In that sweet spot is where the maximum zinc preformance is. Diesel combustion is about as bad a thing that engine oil is exposed to.(Total acid numbers(TANs))
When we test ANYTHING in the materials lab it's indipendent, we do use manufactures spec's as as a starting piont/guide line but they have lot's on the line (contract's ect...) so we prove it good or bad.

I'm not sure what's going on with the e-mail
Mine is andrew.owsiak@navy.mil
Gary,
     I sent you an e-mail but it got kicked back

David,
   Sure, I don't need much, a small bottle with about 4 coke-a-cola cap fulls. Take the sample "mid-steam". Take 1 from the bottle as a base line and 1 from your warm engine. (It takes longer to write the results down than do the 45 sec. test)