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1969 Mustang Stringer Rebuild

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vondy View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-10-2011 at 8:19pm
(Edit 3-20-2012, since I somehow screwed up most of the photos linked to this post, I've made a set on my flickr account that should contain all of the ones used. Sorry.)

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Well it's time to get this done, been dreading it really, looks like a ton of work. I guess I have a small head start since I removed my foam a couple of years ago. My hope is to get this done no later than July 4th weekend. 3.5 months



I've been reading the major stringer post for 3 years now but will re-read and take notes before getting started.



I do have a few questions for you experts first...



Ideally I would remove the stringers and get all the grinding out of the way first. That gives me more time to save up money for supplies. I've heard It's OK to remove all the stringers in these small 16 footers without worrying about anything getting out of shape. Thoughts?



Thinking ahead on other items to attend to when putting the engine back in... I want to add some adjustable engine mounts and do away with these wedges. I assume that is doable?



I think the rear starboard side clamp(?) that attaches to the engine mount is cracked along the top. Any chance that can be welded or something?



It will be a few weeks before I get started so plenty of time to psych myself up I know I'll get plenty of good advice here.



Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connorssons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 11:12pm
Hello Vondy! hows it been? glad to see ya going to restring the stang. keep us posted, and yes you can remove all the innerds just make sure you have it braced up correctly. good luck jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 11:27pm
Congrats on taking the plunge. Just saw some pcm mounts on ebay go for like $30.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2011 at 11:27pm
Lets see some pics!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 11:07am
Originally posted by connorssons connorssons wrote:

Hello Vondy! hows it been? glad to see ya going to restring the stang. keep us posted, and yes you can remove all the innerds just make sure you have it braced up correctly. good luck jeff


Hey Jeff! Been good. Thanks again for saving us last summer with the manifolds.

Would the trailer be sufficient for bracing it or would I need to build some extra bracing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wingwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 11:30am
Originally posted by vondy vondy wrote:


Would the trailer be sufficient for bracing it or would I need to build some extra bracing?


Depends on the trailer. On my 63 skier the aft end of my trailer bunks sit right at the corners of the transom, I made some wedges to fit between the trailer frame rails and the hull at about the windshield. With all the stringers out my hull is still pretty rigid but the wedges stabilize it when climbing in and out.

Jack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 11:59am
David,
I'd pull all the stringers and then see how it sits on the trailer. Yes, you have a hull that's considered real heavy and stiff. If you see and deflection, then you can always do some bracing.

What's the matter with the wood wedges under the engine mounts?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 12:10pm
Yes, you can remove all of the stringers in one shot to get all the grinding done first... but Im not sure I would recommend doing so for 2 reasons.

1. You will need to brace the boat as mentioned above. Without any structural members running the length of the hull, even the small hulls will deflect. The trailer is not sufficient- you will need additional braces front and rear at the chines at a minimum... and more is better. You could probably get away with just the trailer if you remove/replace one stringer at a time.

2. By removing/replacing one stringer at a time, it gives you a good reference point as you go along and shape and then install each stringer. It is very hard to take measurements once the boat is completely gutted. Even if you take 1000 measurements before disassembling, you will ALWAYS find something you failed to measure. Been there, done that.

If your boat were anything but a Holman Moody, it would be pretty straightforward to replace your mounts with newer adjustable ones from PCM. The H-M uses different mounting provisions though (bellhousing and front cover), so it would not be easy to do away with yours. I would stick with the wedges. Of course, Id be willing to swap some PCM parts for those H-M nonadjustables if youre dead set on going that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 12:35pm
David, I've never aligned an engine with adjustable mounts, but found the wedges on our Mustang easy to work with. Adusting the wedges with a small sledge hammer and a block of wood was easy and it surprisingly came into alignment much easier than I thought it would.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 1:42pm
Seemed to me as accurate as the alignment needs to be that adjustable engine mounts would be easier and more accurate than banging on wedges. One problem I had was that the front needed to be adjusted so I ended up adding wedges to those as well.

Would there not be a concern for loosening and tightening the lags once a year. Seems like it would weaken the connection and be another point at which water could get in.

I'm not against the wedges, I just want to make sure if there is a better way I do it.

Any thoughts on the crack in the rear starboard bellhousing mount clamp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 3:02pm
Vondy, I'm not familar with your mounts, but mine are fixed. No adjustment at all. They work much better than I thought they would. The only draw back I see to them is once your lag holes are drilled, there is no side to side adjustment, only up and down. You've got a Holman Moody set up, so I'd rather keep that and deal with it due to it being probably the most desirable power for you boat's age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 4:47pm
Riley, I dug up some old pics of the mounts, before I added new wedges.

I do have side-to-side movement by-the-way.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 6:01pm
Gotta love that engine! I would redo it just like that. Some Doug Fir wedges coated in CPES will contrast nicely with the new floor and bilge around it. If you are worried about wearing out the holes start with the shortest lags you can get away with. That way if you bore them out you can go deeper and get more bite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 9:30pm
Vondy, that's a much better set up than mine. You've got your side to side with the mounts and a little tap either way on the wedges for height. I'd stay with that set up. Keep your wedges to make new ones out of. I think mine are oak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2011 at 10:21pm
Wow Bruce that sucker is clean! Does not look like there is much adjustment on that at all. I like the curves in the stringer. Very cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2011 at 2:06pm
Keegan, the curved wood is an oak mount that sits on top of the stringers. There is just up and down movement with the wedges. I don't know what can be done if you need a side to side adjustment, other than move the engine forward or backward a bit and drill new lag holes. Fortunately , we did not have to do that. That white bilge will be the last one I do! I see you did yours the same color.

Vondy, your mounts are really good. I like how H/M put the rear mount forward of the tranny so you can remove it easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2011 at 2:14pm
My white bilge was getting dirty before I ever got the engine back in. Grey is probably more practical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2011 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by vondy vondy wrote:


Any thoughts on the crack in the rear starboard bellhousing mount clamp?


David, you mean in that area right behind the bolts of the sideways clamp mount? This one was cracked on mine.I took it to a good welder and they fixxed me up fine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2011 at 11:14am
That's it Gary.

I seem to recall the bell housing to be aluminum, is that right or am I imagining things?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connorssons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2011 at 11:24pm
Hay Vondy! you are correct Alum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2011 at 11:28pm
Your right David,it's aluminum.Ask around and get yourself a good welder.We have alot of truck repair places around,since we live in a gravel mining area. Most gravel trailers are aluminum so they have alot of pratice.If you look close you can see the weld in that picture,I didn't even have to clean it up. Must be a common thing for these to crack I'll bet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2011 at 12:45pm
Is it easy enough to separate the bell housing from the engine and transmission to take it to a welder? No major gaskets or seals to worry about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2011 at 9:27pm
Nothing there at all.Just a matter of unbolting it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2011 at 8:39pm
Gave the lumber yard a call today looking for Douglas Fir. I told him I needed the good stuff and he said they have #1, C and better, vertical grain. I'm not that versed in wood grades. Does that sound right to y'all?

I'm also not sure on sizes yet but a 2x8x14 is $113.

Pulling to engine tomorrow to officially get started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2011 at 9:38am
David,
Go take a look at it. If the #1 looks nice, is straight and doesn't have a large loose knots in it, it will be cheaper. Don't worry about bad edges as they will be trimmed off when you scrib to the hull. Make sure you ask them about the moisture content. If it's a good yard, they should have a meter. Out of the kiln, you'll see about 13%. 10% is getting there and usable. 8% is great.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2011 at 10:59am
Pete, if it's 13% out of the kiln, how do you get it to 8%? Should it be bought ahead of time and be stored so that it air dries some more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2011 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Pete, if it's 13% out of the kiln, how do you get it to 8%? Should it be bought ahead of time and be stored so that it air dries some more?

Bruce,
Yes, if at all possible, get it a couple months in advance. Sticker (1x2 spacers) it and put it in a cool spot with good air circulation. I suggested this to Tim along with a fan blowing on it. I believe he did do it. Rotating the wood top to bottom and end to end helps as well.

I'm currently doing some green wood bowl turning on that 48 lathe I rebuilt. I've never done the green wood before and it's not fun! The selection of small blocks of unusual woods is fantastic plus real cheap but I don't feel the trouble you go through is worth it. First, you rough turn the blank figuring at least 10% shrinkage. Then you set the blocks to dry for 2 to 3 years!! If you don't have that time, you use the microwave method that I used. I almost started a couple of Beech blanks on fire!! This green wood turning was really a experiment. I found a sample set of Beech, Sasafrass, Cherry and Walnut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2011 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

David,
Go take a look at it. If the #1 looks nice, is straight and doesn't have a large loose knots in it, it will be cheaper. Don't worry about bad edges as they will be trimmed off when you scrib to the hull. Make sure you ask them about the moisture content. If it's a good yard, they should have a meter. Out of the kiln, you'll see about 13%. 10% is getting there and usable. 8% is great.


Pete, he said his number 1 stuff was the c & better vertical grain. From the way I typed it, it might have looked like 3 options. He does have number 2 as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2011 at 12:04pm
David,
Go look at it and if in doubt, report back. The "and better" is really a term open to interpretation!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-20-2011 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

David,
Go look at it and if in doubt, report back. The "and better" is really a term open to interpretation!!


I'll do that.

Looks like I'll need 2x8x12s for the mains and 1x2x9s for the secondaries. Does that sound right? What do others use for the cross bracing? Fir or something cheaper? I don't have a lot in this boat.

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