Marinised PCM/Ford

Evening - Does anyone know if Ford is permanently out of the business with regard to marinised gas V-8's? I believe GM builds a good power plant; however, we are a long standing Ford family. I've recently run across Ford's new Coyote 5.0 which pushes over 400HP without rocket fuel or the use of a supercharger/blower! If Correct Craft dropped a Ford based engine in their new, 200 closed bow we would probably buy one. Thanks - JJO

Your absolutely right! Holman Moody built some incredible engines and as I understand it, most marinised American V-8's weren't done by the big three over the past 50 years or so. (I'm fairly sure Chrysler may be an exception to the rule?) but, jus the same I'm curious if we might see the new Ford based engines back on the water....

At some point, the current GM based blocks won't be made anymore, kind of like how Ford quit making pushrod motors, and that ended the 351W based PCM marine use.

At some point, GM will stop making pushrod v8's as well, when that happens, maybe we can get ford's back in. The new 5.0 and 6.2 motors are one serious set of motors, but you never know, maybe we will have supercharged v6's at some point.

Cactus - This looks like an opportunity for you! Got 10 or 20 million $ to invest in a startup venture?

[QUOTE=TRBenj]
For whatever reason, Ford decided to stop building the Windsor motors altogether in the mid-late 90's. QUOTE]

As late as '99 you could still buy brand new 302 blocks for 279.00 from Summit,should have gotten one.

TRBenj wrote: Both Ford and Chrysler were in the business of marinizing motors- though Ford has been out of it since the 60's. Their marine division was called "Interceptor". For whatever reason, Ford decided to stop building the Windsor motors altogether in the mid-late 90's. The last 351w PCM's (GT40) were sold in 2002. GM, on the other hand, continues to produce the venerable 350, despite no longer offering it in their cars. It was probably much easier for the aftermarket marinizers to concentrate on the existing, proven GM pushrod engines rather than start designing and tooling up for unproven Ford OHV engines. I would not hold your breath for a new Ford powered 200!

The reasons for ford dropping the pushrods are plenty.
less NVH, less emissions, better fuel efficiency, and the list goes on.

I guess the bigger question is why GM is still using pushrods?

While they don't make the 350 in many cars, as most are the 5.3 or 6.0, the 5.7 350 is still used in some vettes. In any case, the blocks are basically the same for mounting of driveline items.

The cost of tooling is what really did the ford marine motors in. The OHC (not OHV) ford motors are well proven in the auto industry, as the 4.6 OHC motors had been used since the mid 90's in T birds, crown vics and mustangs.

I wouldn't be shocked if many of the old 350 marine motors parts would bolt up to a new 5.3 or 350.

Pushrod engines offer a lot of advantages over overhead cam engines. The main ones being less weight per hp and overall simplicity. And heh, no timing belts!

I remembered this Car and Driver article from a ways back and was able to find it again. The basic argument that Larry Webster makes, is that everyone makes a big deal about the better hp/displacement made by overhead cam engines. What no one, except GM in this article, ever thinks about is that pushrod engines offer greater hp/overall engine size and weight:

Pushrod Gets Its Due

Cactus wrote: Evening - Does anyone know if Ford is permanently out of the business with regard to marinised gas V-8's? I believe GM builds a good power plant; however, we are a long standing Ford family. I've recently run across Ford's new Coyote 5.0 which pushes over 400HP without rocket fuel or the use of a supercharger/blower! If Correct Craft dropped a Ford based engine in their new, 200 closed bow we would probably buy one. Thanks - JJO

Ford did not fare to well with marinizing their modular platform. of the 5 5.4 ford/PCM naturaly aspirated motors that we ran for longevity testing 3 failed in a catostrophic manor. At that point Ford saw the writing on the wall Chevy was dominating the marine market. Had Ford started devolpment of marine versions from the onset of their modular infancy i think that they still may be players but with the failures late in the game Ford pulled the plug on ford Marine.
The Supercharged units we ran were absolute beasts and ran with no failures at all.

You can still buy Ford crate engines from Ford and Roush. All it takes is a phone call and $$$.

Ford
Roush

Ski Dim sells a Brand New Engine/Transmission Bundle to replace a Ford Right Hand and 1:1 with a Chevy Left Hand and PCM 1.23:1.

Ski Dim Bundle

It's funny that they do it with the 5.0 instead of the 5.7 but I guess 275 is more than the original. I wonder how the performance would compare overall with the better gear reduction tranny.

TRBenj wrote: horkn wrote: While they don't make the 350 in many cars, as most are the 5.3 or 6.0, the 5.7 350 is still used in some vettes. I wouldn't be shocked if many of the old 350 marine motors parts would bolt up to a new 5.3 or 350. Tom, you may want to stick with the Ford stuff! As far as I know, the Corvette started using the LS series engines in 1997. Or by "Vette" maybe you mean "Chevette"? Perhaps GM still sells those in Mexico or something?

I'm not even a chevy guy, but ls1 and ls6 motors came in 5.7 liter displacement in the corvette (or chevette LOL)and in camaros.


Looks like the LS series motors (2 and 6) WAS available as a 5.7 liter until recently(2004), then the larger displacement LS motors came out for 05.

So, while you are correct about new vettes not having 5.7's, the 5.7 was available well past 97 as you thought. Granted it's an all aluminum motor and nothing really like the cast iron 350's most people think of.

Serious advantages that the OHC motor has over OHV pushrods is that the OHC motors provide better flow capacity, less friction, and the use of a sophisticated variable intake and exhaust timing.

Also, not all OHC motors have timing belts, as some have chains.

Unfortunately too many OHC motors have timing belts. My 4.2 v8 audi has a timing chain, but our 4.7 v8 4runner has a belt. All the ford modular v8s and the new 5.0 and 6.2 have timing chains too.

I worked at a Cadillac dealership service dept., briefly in Fall of 2010.

Anyway, a lot of the SRX's with the overhead cam V6's and the timing chains used to have problems. I guess the chains would stretch and then trigger the cam position sensor.

This one guy was like an expert at changing them. It was literally like watching a factory robot, he was so efficient at it. The chain stretch situation made a lot of dough for that guy. I've gotta say though, after watching him do a few of them, I'd still have a hard time doing it myself. It was a complicated job.

I think the Escalade 6.0s (similar to our PCM 409hp) were pretty bulletproof. I believe they were really just an evolution of the 5.7. I saw Escalade's with all kinds of problems, although it was largely just the chrome wheels failing and becoming porous. Never any problems with those engines.

I've got to say though, the Ford OHC 4.6s are also pretty bulletproof. Any engine that can survive in a cop car earns my respect. I thought it was cool how they used to use two 4 banger distributor caps, one running off each cam. I thought it was a really elegant design. Not much room for slop or wear without bevel gears.

skutsch wrote: [QUOTE=TRBenj] Both Ford and Chrysler were in the business of marinizing motors- though Ford has been out of it since the 60's. Their marine division was called "Interceptor". For whatever reason, Ford decided to stop building the Windsor motors altogether in the mid-late 90's. The last 351w PCM's (GT40) were sold in 2002. GM, on the other hand, continues to produce the venerable 350, despite no longer offering it in their cars.

Tim - I thought Interceptor was a brand name owned by the Eaton Corp, who took the Ford block and completed the marinization. Perhaps, they completed the conversion by taking the Interceptor engine (FORD used that brand name on T-Birds and police cruiser) added the dearbo transmissions and delivered to boat manufactures. I guess I am not sure of the proces...

I am probably incorrect also, if Tim posted, it's fact. But with my dealing with a few of these Y Blocks, I too have added a bit of knowledge.
My understanding is this:
Yale/Eaton produced all the components of their marinized Interceptor engines.This was no small task for any supplier.The base engines were supplied by Ford and then modified to each customer order.
The 312 was offered in a CW and CCW rotation, my Collegian came w/CW.The engines were in such high demand that you were happy to get what you could.The Interceptor/ Yale/Eaton re wrote the book on modern day marine power.

For example on my 312 the custom pieces consist of:

Complete tranny assy.
Exhaust manifolds
Oil Pan
Raw Water Pump
Timing Chain Cover
Intake Manifold
Thermostat Housings /Port and Starboard
Complete Flame Arrestor/ Breather Assy/ Lifter Valley Cover

Each piece has it's own part number cast into the surface.Remember we are talking mid 1950's work ethics here, git er done......

Eaton is still a huge company, but Interceptor Marine Engines and Dearborn Marine Division aren't even a footnote in their history.

Bri892001 wrote: I worked at a Cadillac dealership service dept., briefly in Fall of 2010. Anyway, a lot of the SRX's with the overhead cam V6's and the timing chains used to have problems. I guess the chains would stretch and then trigger the cam position sensor. This one guy was like an expert at changing them. It was literally like watching a factory robot, he was so efficient at it. The chain stretch situation made a lot of dough for that guy. I've gotta say though, after watching him do a few of them, I'd still have a hard time doing it myself. It was a complicated job. I think the Escalade 6.0s (similar to our PCM 409hp) were pretty bulletproof. I believe they were really just an evolution of the 5.7. I saw Escalade's with all kinds of problems, although it was largely just the chrome wheels failing and becoming porous. Never any problems with those engines. I've got to say though, the Ford OHC 4.6s are also pretty bulletproof. Any engine that can survive in a cop car earns my respect. I thought it was cool how they used to use two 4 banger distributor caps, one running off each cam. I thought it was a really elegant design. Not much room for slop or wear without bevel gears.

Yep, those issues are one reason the SRX was taken off my list of cars that I was looking to replace the grand cherokee with.

The v6's had the chain issues, and northstar powered ones have their own well known issues.

I think GM has tried to stay away from OHC motors for as long as they can because they can't seem to make a good one.