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Engineers out there. Experienced with Plastic?

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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-18-2011 at 1:59pm
Hi All,

I know there are a few engineers on this site, so I figured it would be as good a place as any to ask.

I've been kicking around in my brain, for quite some time, a little invention that would basically be a better way for consumers to carry bottles of soda and/or water.

This idea would basically make it so, if someone wanted to stock up on say, 4 bottles of soda, instead of using a whole bunch of bags (which would go into landfills) they'd use this strap I'm conceiving.

It would have four tethers and a central handle. Each tether would have a plastic clip on the end, that would clip around the little ring on the top of the bottle. The beauty being, that it would be very easy to carry four bottles, and it would be totally recyclable/re-usable.

I was thinking maybe a six tether version for smaller water bottles.

I came across this company, Strap Works, that would have most of the supplies I need and they'll make up anything as long as you use the hardware and supplies that they already stock.

My problem is that the little clip would be application specific. I called strap works and their customer support was none too helpful.

I think I'd need to have my clips custom made. I have a small budget and by small, I mean really pretty much none. I would probably need a company to make the clips, and then I'd buy them from them by the 100 count of whatever.

Anyone have experience with injection molding etc.?

-Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:30pm
Brian,
Hasn't the product been made already?





Really, it does sound like you would need a custom handle with the 4 or 6 holes in it for the clips. We do have plastic injection presses here and I can tell you the biggest problem will be cost to have the mold made. The actual piece parts are pennies! You should be getting in touch with a mold maker to get a idea of the cost. Don't be surprised if it get's up into the 30K plus range.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:36pm
Hahahah, thanks Peter. I've gotten that one before. I think Pepsi even made a giant one of those at one point that held 2 liter bottles. It was still disposable though.

Thanks for the suggestion on the mold maker; that's a good idea. That's a big number though

Some friends have suggested I just do the "clip" with a little noose made of nylon thread. It wouldn't be quite as cool though and may not hold.

I drew up a crude rendering here (I'm not artist). The little blue squares represent the clips I need:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:49pm
I have no help for you as I only work with metal, but your drawing looks like an automatic dairy milking unit.



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Bri892001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:54pm
Hahahahaha

That's exactly what I need. I just need it to fasten to Coke bottles instead of nipples... and not milk them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 3:03pm
And BTW, metal could be an option too.

The clips would have to have some springiness to them in order to attach and un-attach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 3:30pm
first, you'll need to make a CAD model of your clip...then probably make a prototype (aluminum) injection mold. material type and grade will depend on the design of your clip.
i have never used this company, but just got a flyer in the mail from proto labs...www.protomold.com...they mention proto molds (aluminum or maybe urethane) from $1495.
a multi cavity steel "production" tool could be more like $100K and then you need someone to actually mold the parts...but, a lot of tool shops also mold parts. the parts cost would be based on the mat'l used (lowest is probably unfilled polypropelyne, glass filled nylon would be on the higher end) $/pound, process cost...machine time/shot or hours, and any assembly.
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C-Bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 3:31pm
It could be a stamped metal clip of some kind. If you're just trying to do some really cheap prototype, buy some metal and some shears, and get creative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 3:47pm
just off the top of my head...
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 3:56pm
Nick,
I like it!! Now, keep going on a easy way to remove the clip from the container.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:04pm
Nick, that's amazing. Would that be metal or plastic? Would something like that be big money to produce?

Above it was mentioned that stamped metal could be far cheaper to produce. I was thinking possibly something with a key-way. The big hole would fit over the neck/ring of the bottle, then the you could slide it and the smaller hole would hold it firm. The strap would go around the little slit that is cut out:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:07pm
I am not atually a Plastics Engineer, but I play one in everyday real life Actually, I am in engineering plastic resin sales. I end up doing a lot of develpment/engineering activities with OEM's and injection molders.

When you described what you are trying to do, I immediately thought of a company I am aware of in the Chicago area. Give Skip a call. Tell him Dave Gwinn recommended you to contact him. The link for his company is attached. They have developed consumer type applications from recycled polymers in the past. He can at least give you an idea of what kind of costs and development cycle you can expect.

Injection Molder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:08pm
i would think "tuning" the length of the legs and the engagement of the snaps would allow you to remove the clip by pushing perpendicular to installation direction...a tab on top would make that easy...maybe more like this...better get back to work now

    
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:10pm
this would be plastic. your keyhole idea would probably work well in plastic too...stamped metal would have burrs and need to be painted/coated...which would probably make it more expensive than plastic...
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:11pm
Pete, Nick, David and Craig,

Thank you very much for your input. It's given me some food for thought.

Unfortunately, I have to get back to my actual job as well.

I'll keep you posted on any developments. David, I'll definitely give that guy a call.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 4:52pm
Plastic injection molding is actually just a small portion of our business. In fact, due to lot's going to China, we're shutting it down at the end of this month. The presses are getting autioned off.

Our primary business is metal stamping and short run metal fab. The key hole idea isn't a bad part to short run ether by turret or laser. Burr's could be removed simply by vibratory finishing. With a "hard" tool in a stamping press, the edges are simply coined removing all burrs.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 5:12pm
Hi Pete, If it were to be done the way you describe above ^, with a stamped metal key-way, would there still be the big costs for the initial tooling/mold?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

Hi Pete, If it were to be done the way you describe above ^, with a stamped metal key-way, would there still be the big costs for the initial tooling/mold?

Brian,
No not on a short run basis. Depending on the complexity of the part, short run would be roughly 1000 pieces. Some shops won't even charge you for programing ether the turret press or laser. The big $$$ are only needed when production quantities get to a point where you need a hard tool.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2011 at 6:12pm
Sounds like a definite option. Thanks again Pete.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67425ks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2011 at 12:23am
you might look into getting a quote for having parts made out of urethane. i have used the company American Urethane to make some small low quantity parts and have been very pleased with quality, lead time, and tooling cost. just give them a detailed drawing or solid model(i.e. not a cocktail napkin with chicken scratches on it) and specify durometer and color.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2011 at 11:01am
Pete, another one bites the dust?
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2011 at 10:55pm
After doing a little poking around. It looks like the clip itself has been done before, but for a slightly different application. If you type in "water bottle clip" into google, you get some examples. But, mostly all anyone has done with it is attach to a carabiner to carry a single water bottle on a back pack.

I just need to get one and see if it's strong enough to hold a full two liter bottle. Then get four of them and some strap and head to a tailer to have a prototype sewn up.

When I become the Mark Zuckerberg of soda carrying, I'll take you all for a pull behind my V-drive Sport Nautique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2011 at 10:22am
Bri, as long as you dont invent another form of the "man purse" you know the ones that go around the waist.....the typical guy wearing one has bermuda shorts, black socks with sandels, well sorta like the J-bear type
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI-nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2011 at 11:56am
that looks better than my idea...
As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2011 at 12:21am
Actually Nick,

I like yours a lot better. The above one just has the advantage of already being made. But yeah, I envision them fastening onto the bottle with a nice solid "click," which the above one would not.

Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2011 at 1:23am
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

Bri, as long as you dont invent another form of the "man purse" you know the ones that go around the waist.....the typical guy wearing one has bermuda shorts, black socks with sandels, well sorta like the J-bear type


shorts gotta be plaid but never black socks with 'em; white socks -winter; no socks-summer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2011 at 9:47am
what do you keep in that purse?
"the things you own will start to own you"
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