$4 gas... question? |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Sorry Tom, But I am not going to thank the government for bumping up the price of my fuel by 50 cents a gallon. At least not until they start spending the money more prudently. Your logic escapes me, if I complain about the cost of fuel for my truck or boat, what makes you think I am funded to spend thirty grand on a prius that can't pull my boat or haul my tools. Now I need two insure and maintain two vehicles. I am complaining because our government is giving money to Brazil to develop thier oil industry and promising to be their best customer while banning our own oil companies from drilling here when our unemployment is at 9%. Our fuel may be cheap compared to other some countries but it could be much cheaper. Oil is the lubricant of our economy. Restricting it slows the economy. Severely restricting it grinds the economy to a halt. In a free country I see the governments role as providing thing that individuals and private companies cannot provide for themselves, not dictate what will be provided as a matter of social policy. Gas taxes are to pay for transportation, and it is clear americans like to drive their own cars, few choose public transportation unless they are forced into using it, so those that think they know what is best for us divert money from roads to build light rail and fund bus sytems that can never support themselves finacialy and than try to increase the cost of fuel to get us to use their idea of transportation.
Your are correct that corn is not the best utilized food by our bodies, but it is an even worse fuel. If we converted every inch of farm land in the us to growing corn forfuel, there is no way we can ever grow enough to replace oil, not even close. Currently ethanol is subsidised to come close to competeing, between the state and federal funding ethanol recieves $1 per gallon subsidy. that means I not only pay for my gas but my tax dollars pay for someone else to use an inferior fuel. It also reguires duplicative systems for transport and refining reducing efficiency, since it delivers less energy per gallon we end up using up more storage and transport capacity per unit of energy. Despite it being advertised as clean burning it puts out more particulate pollution and is worse for asthmatics. Corn production uses horrific amounts of water resources. The worst part is using food for fuel by the law of supply and demand increases the cost of food. The government magically keeps food and fuel out of inflation figure, if included we would be seeing significant inflation right now. I believe biofuels will be part of our future, but we need to use waste bio sources, not food. Re-purposing used fryer oil is brilliant. if we can make it out of fallen leaves and grass clippings great. If we can filter the algea out of the lakes that comes from farmers fertalising their corn crops even better. But we have to get the technology to the point where an alternative can match or beat the price of curently used fuels, and not by artificially inflating the price of oil. We have 100 years of oil right here in the US. By the time we use it up we will have alternatives. no nead to deprive ourselves now. When the time is right and it is profitable people will line up to produce alternatives. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Nice to see some remotely progressive views here on occasion.
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Yes, the government actually has been good at keeping the prices as low as possible.
Anyone disagreeing with that should go live somewhere that fuel is very expensive and still makes our current high prices seem laughable. That would be most of the democratic countries int he world by the way. Dave, your analogy is a bit drastic to say the least. I'll say it again, because unfortunately it's been falling on deaf or closed ears, but corn is a horrible source of food for anything. It makes better fuel than food. If anyone wants to argue that point with me, go eat a couple cobs of corn and when you take a #2, you'll see why. It's largely indigestible. Pigs, chickens, cows, fish, they feed it to all those "farm" stock and they become fat and out of shape. Make it into corn syrup, and while it does sweeten stuff up, it's known to very bad for you. It's probably the biggest reason for the increased rates of diabetes in America. Also, ethanol is not as bad as many people think it is for engines. Internet hype will easy make anything seem like it is the best or worst thing ever. Anyone bitching about gas should probably buy a more efficient vehicle. I'm shocked that some folks still use H2 hummers for daily drivers. I'm not happy about gas prices being as they are now, but I won't rant about it. I drive 70 miles a day, and I don't do much more than a little complaint once in a while. Then again, my old SUV got about 3-4 mpg less than my not so fuel efficient v8 car does. Big oil has been relying on the repugnicans for convenient tax breaks and the means to post huge profits even despite lean economic times. Ever wonder why Shrub flew his Middle eastern cronies out of the US after all the planes were grounded in 2001? If protocol had been carried out, that plane would have landed in about a million pieces after being blown up by a couple of US fighter jets. In any case, biofuel from will be taking the place of ethanol in the near future. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=biofuel-from-bacteria |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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[QUOTE=eric lavine] actually our gov has been doing a petty good job at keeping fuel prices low i have to hand it to them for the price we do pay at the pump. oil companies are part of the private sector and basically can do whatever they want.[/QUOTE
What? WHAT? That is like a women who got raped saying "I have to say that rapist was pretty nice, I could have been gang raped". The private sector can not stay in business charging "Whatever they want", supply and demand along with competiuton regulate the price. The government however has no competion and does charge whatever we will accept. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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watrski
Senior Member Joined: December-01-2010 Location: Chippewa Lake Status: Offline Points: 393 |
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I don't care about high fuel prices.
Less tubers. Less jetskis. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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actually our gov has been doing a petty good job at keeping fuel prices low, it would be GD easy to throw a 2.00 tax on it and pull us out of the deficit, obviously it would throw the country on its knees....but i have to hand it to them for the price we do pay at the pump. oil companies are part of the private sector and basically can do whatever they want.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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I'm kinda with you Joel, I am not going to let gas prices stop me from one of the few enjoyments in life.... slow down a bit, maybe, but not stop.
I havent had a bike for over 20 years... keep "threatening" my wife that I am going to get one because of gas prices. Actually its just the excuse to get another. In reality, the numbers dont work out.By the time you buy the bike, add insurance and plates, and factor in the fact we can only use it 1/3 of the total year(if your lucky), the savings are not there. Plus, with our business, I haul something almost daily. (BTW, Dont let my wife see this part) |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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+1 Reduce demand where applicable. It's too bad that we have a 1950's car-based transportation infrastructure (and mindset for most people), but we can still try to do our part to reduce gas use as much as possible. I have a separate car just for commuting which gets better MPG than my truck. I'm also getting a motorcycle license/classification this summer. On the positive side, high gas prices might open some eyes and minds out there. Make them think twice about their driving habits and lifestyles. Reduce pollution. Encourage community development based around walking, biking, and public transportation. Efficient land use and urban planning. That said, gas prices won't stop me from towing my ridiculously thirsty V8 ski boat with my V8 SUV at least 2K miles this summer |
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2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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Plan ahead, buy a smarter car...sounds good right? Well they're already considering a milage tax to make up for gas tax revenue lost to all electric cars. We all know you can't sue city hall, but it's even tougher to 'out-shaft' em!
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, when your government is under the control of a bunch of tree hugging liberals, and denighing its citizens the contries own resources, you are very close to a dictatorship. They are forcing you to make the decisions they want you to make. You can follow like a sheep and do as you are doing which is exactly what they want, this will kill your business at the same time, or you can speak up. Vote in peoplr who will let us use our resources as we see fit, not them.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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we are not under a dictatorship and last time i checked we were all able to freely make our own choices, maybe its time to start making wiser choices....not living like free spirited hippies in a free society, i really think it all boils down to the choice we make can controls the governments outcome...really im thinking today already what i will be doing tommorow, getting in the car and mapping out the best route and not going out 3 times for the things i need....simple things like that. oh, and not buying any Chinese sht lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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And that is why food prices are going up. Farmers are growing CORN, 'cause they get paid more....So other food prices go up, 'cause the supply has dropped. Government Meddling AGAIN. |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5312 |
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Well, seeing as how my Dad and Mom still have farms in Iowa and Illinois the price of corn has gone up so at least the hard working farmer has a little better life $$ wise. Just wish my Uncle and Grandfather were still around to see it ( well somewhat). Both were in their late 70's and still farming when they died. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Online Points: 4112 |
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I agree with ya about the government. Did anyone notice the cost of most food products increased when they mandated the 10% ethanol and now they're pushing for 15%. Take a look at the ingredients, in most food products "CORN" in some form is one of the main ingredients. Let alone the ethanol is #$@king up all our motors other than the car we drive daily. |
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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I am not crying about high prices, I am BITCHING about the unintended consequences of government meddling. and I wish I had a diesel.
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Nautique Fan
Senior Member Joined: October-24-2010 Location: GA Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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We took on fuel in Midway, Chicago. At 7.04/gal for Jet A I'm glad I'm not paying for the fuel. Too bad we burn about 450 gal/hr. Makes the 25 gal I burn in a weekend in the NSS seem like nothing.
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1997 Nautique Super Sport
1989 Ski Nautique 2001 (Sold) |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Online Points: 4112 |
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Sorry about that...NOT!!! You have the same choice as me, either pay out your nose at the pump or take things into your own hands and do something about. I chose to do something instead of crying about high prices. |
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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It certainly did start with the free market, then the gov. got involved and now the free market has very little to do with the price of gas.
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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I love this website. http://www.twincitiesgasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx
It doesn't answer your question, but it does show the issue graphically. You can pick the cities, add the crude line, change the time graphed. It is great. Clark |
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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We don't need to drill to flood the market with additional supply, we need to drill to become self sufficient. We do not need to keep oil as a world commodity. Drill, refine, and consume our own oil. Wind, Solar, Electric and Hydrogen are never going to over take oil, not in my kid's lifetime. You know it won't be long before the Gov gets into all your homemade biofuel business. You don't pay taxes, but you drive on the road. They will tax ME more when I register the vehicle to pay for your non taxed bio-fuel.
Why do I hate the Gov. so much? Clark |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Gunny's doing the same damn thing, not relying
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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fck, kristoff pulls his boat with a car, and his boat runs on propane,.... acclimation
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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put yourself in a position of profits, lets say your the drug dealer down on the corner and no metter what you do, you have a steady stream of customers, they need that drug regardless, their addicted and you feed off of this, you know if you jack the price up that day they will beg borrow or steal to pay that. on the other side of the coin these addicts are going to re-hab not needing that drug as much so your stream of customers diminishes, your not so dependent on that dealer anymore, he needs to set up shop in a different neighborhood to keep up his habit, you need less and less of that drug..its a simple choice just like Horkn riding his motorcycle back and forth,
we mandated i believe the mpg ratings from 24 mpgs to 32mpg's starting in 2013, its not the government which they have no control of oil prices, they are in control of keeping it lower by defending the countries that do produce oil, Really are gas is cheap compared to the rest of the world, but, if you can see the Europeons are not driving around in big Escalades, dodge hemi's, they have acclimated to the high oil prices they pay....so does the problem start with the government? probably not |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Online Points: 4112 |
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Made my own processor. I make around 40-120 gallons a week.(40 gallons per batch)How much I make depends on our demand and how much time I have. Right now I have a little better than 240 gallons in stock so I make a little here a little there to keep the inventory up. Here's a couple of places to start reading. These guys are the CCF of Bio. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum168/ Some good info on these forums http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/498605551 This is a good place to get an idea of what it takes to make Bio http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html#filter |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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malcom, drilling here is not the real answer. Not at the rate China is consuming oil. Remember, we owe China a TON of money. More future in oil belongs to biogas and other non traditional fuels.
I took my motorcycle today and yesterday to work. I saved about 16 dollars on gas versus my car for the 2 days even though I had to endure 2 morning 40 minute commutes at 37 degrees. Back to the near 20mpg car again for thursday and Friday due to rain. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I had a tremendus tail wind coming home from SJRR. Pulling my boat at 70mph I got 25 mpg with my Jeep AND it starts in the winter |
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malcolm2
Senior Member Joined: June-13-2010 Location: Nashville Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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Obama wants our fuel prices to be like they are in Europe...He said that before people voted for him. Just proves no one listens. I hate to wish my life away, but he has got to go. Problem is the next guy won't take us back to $1.75 gas either. DRILL, DRILL, DRILL!
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Behl
Senior Member Joined: December-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 404 |
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Pilot here in Indy today is 4.05. Our coach gets just over 4 mph. Hard to keep passing cost on, for people are starting to not want to travel even at a group rate.
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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and you just posted one of those reversable numbera 14141
MA today $4.09 to $4.13 Ten minute drive into CT $4.22 & $4.31 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I just fueled up - $4.16 a gal. for diesel!
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