First Oil Change |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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I'll just chime in and back Pete, I run the VR-1 20W-50 in my 96' also.
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levin
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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I currently run the vr-1 20w50 BUT would like to try a 10w40. I think the 20 is too much at cold start and I'd like to see if there is any noticable change with a lighter weight blend.
What are my options in a 10w40 with adequate ZDDP? |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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My motor guy recommened this. http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=82&catid=9&loc=show |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I run straight 40 on mine.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Thats not the direction I want to go so I'm going to try a 10w40 with additive. I want to get away from the 50wt for top end but need to 10 at start up. I run a high volume oil pump and I suspect it's holding me back so this is really just a comparative test. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13511 |
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Castrol GTX Diesel 15w-40
I really don't know how easily available it is, but probably what I'll look to once I run out of 20w-50 VR$.
A fresh 5 quarts and it's back to 43 mph. Double your oil and you'll definitely slow down. |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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I just changed to a straight 30w.
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Alan, I did not meant that post to you, just wanted to share my side of the story. I think we should agree that a SAE40 or 15w40 oil is the base oil for these engines, then you should consider engine condition and operating temperature where the boat is located. what additive would you add? most guys here dont like them, down here this one is quite popular: MPC MPC test |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Luchog, I have seen these sort of tests before. What always confuses me is if these additives are so great, why don't the oil manufacturers put it in their oils? I am not saying they don't work, just looking at a very interesting logical question. Any ideas?
The factory manual I read did recommend 40w by the way. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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They do use plenty of additives in their oils but the one we are always concerned about most is the ZDDP for our flat tappets. It's the ZDDP that the EPA has regulated to the point of removal in some oil products. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Luchog, I was just commenting. No worries. I mentioned an additive because the prior post linked to a Lucas oil product. I'm going to try to find the Castrol product Hollywood wentioned and give that a try. FYI to anyone reading this my engine is not stock so my oil concerns may not be the same as yours. You will have to make your own conclusions, I have run the vr1 20w50 since the rebuild and don't think it is right mainly because of the oil pump I have in the motor. Hindsight is 20/20 but you learn a lot in 5 years and I would use a stock pump next time. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Alan,
You could get the stock pump back in, pick up the lost HP and get some more WOT speed!!! Don't worry about it - many have made the mistake thinking a high volume pump would be better. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Alan, along with wentioned, do you own a wessel too Scotty?....you edited as i was typing
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Next time I pull the motor to clean the bilge Pete!! I am 3/10 off of 55mph and it's killing me LOL. Once I finish working on the Wood boat I'll get back on my quest for speed and the 81 will be going under the knife for a winter. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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That was a good laugh so I put it back in for ya!! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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Alan, what is the issue with the high volume pump?
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Some say it robs HP, also puts more stress on the distributor gear. That's why I going to a lighter weight oil for now. Seemed like the thing to do when I built the motor years ago but most seem to think it's not needed. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Bruce, Alan's probably out running the silk screen machine and may not get back until lunch? so, I'll throw a few things in here. (he will too I'm sure). The high volume pumps need more HP since they pump more oil and it's not needed on a regular engine. It's just a waste of HP. I understand that many race car engines use them but they are intentionally built with some losser bearing fits. Also, way back it was common to stick a high volume pump in as a "band aid" on high milage worn out engines. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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I've read a few debates about them on several forums, but the consensus seems to be a stock pump is usually best. Sounds like it's not a serious problem for Alan like the top end loading up with oil and the pump starving and frothing, which I've read can happen. It does seem to be one of those things that people have strong opinions about either way.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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it's not really a problem at all I would just like to change it out, always looking for the right mix of parts to improve performance. I don't consider it a mistake, it runs fine as is I just can't leave things alone if there might be a better option. I would like to change my cam also, the cam was a choice made from a recommendation of a pro but it's not really ideal. Actually when I pull the boat apart in a few years this motor will probably not go back in it. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Alan why wait son long??? Why not just start putting it together now and then switch engines? |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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Pull the boat apart? It looked and ran about perfect to me when I saw it.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Thanks, I can be pretty tough to please. That pic is +-3 years old, the boat still looks pretty good but it needs a little TLC. I just need to get the Hurricane out of the way before I can start. Luchog, Once I have a plan for the new motor I'll pick up a block and start collecting parts. I may offer this motor for sale, It would make a great repower for a tired old red 88 Nautique. I still have to fire up the Hemi this summer and I hope that goes well or it may set me back another year. |
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merbesfield
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2009 Location: Lake Rabun Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Enough with the oil weight debate. Can someone please post the oil filter no. and possibly the NAPA Oil filter no.? Does NAPA sell any other parts that I should grab when I head to the lake tomorrow? Thanks
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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I got the PCM version of the oil filter:
http://www.nautiqueparts.com/oilfilterpcm.aspx I think almost all of them take the same filter. Because, even the Chevy engines use the Ford Filter and will use an oil filter remote. I know the Ford version is the FL-1A. There is a Wix version, I believe it's the 1515. I've heard guys mention a Napa Gold version as well, so it definitely exists, I don't know the number on that one. |
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Ladies Love Cool Correct Crafts
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Napa Gold is #1515 and I believe still made by Wix. Presumably one of the better filters out there. |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Running a straight 30 weight is ok right??
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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Polar Express
Newbie Joined: June-14-2011 Location: Marysville, WA Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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The Windsor series Ford motors that have been discussed, all use a rather small oil pump drive shaft. If you've never been inside one, they are not much larger than the #2 yellow pencil my kids do their homework with. Personally, I've always thought that was a little light duty for an oil pump drive shaft. As much as I believe that part design is under-sized ,the sheer volume of them still on the road, and working just fine certainly rebuts my personal opinion.
That being said, thicker viscosity oils, or a higher volume pump will place a higher stress on this little part, For those reasons, and the fact that our engines run a little cooler than the automotive applications, I prefer a lighter viscosity oil. Various oil ingredients are there for all kinds of reasons, and the EPA has done wonders to make lubricants worse, all in the name of preservation. While still available, single-vis oils are not as common as they once were. You can easily find a variety of multi-vis oils on any parts house shelf, and pick your pleasure. As far as aftermarket additives go, I'm a HUGE fan of the old Bardahl EP additive, but sadly, I can't get it anymore, even if I go to the factory in Seattle and beg. So, my #2 is Hilton Hyper Lube, but as that is rather thick, I compensate with an even lighter base oil. Recently, I've gone with 2 qts 5-30, 2 qts 0-30, and 1 qt HyperLube, and my engine has loved it so far. PE |
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1996 Sport Nautique
This is America, if you don't like it, go conquer another country, and start your own. I'll keep my God, my guns and my freedom, Barry can keep his 'change' |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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How can you tell that the engine "loves it"?
Don't confuse cooler temps within the cooling system compared to autos for lower oil temps... the sustained high loads that marine engines see make them a different animal. Some of the offshore guys run cooling systems with no thermostats and sub 120 deg temps just to keep their oil under the 250 mark... oftentimes in conjunction with large oil coolers in the loop. Agreed on the small oil pump drive... gotta be careful with hv pumps on windsors. |
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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I agree, how do you know your engine Loves it. My recommendation is run Amsoil they have two marine oils either one will be great. I have been running it for years. Read their reports and test. If someone made a better oil I would run it. I also use their oil filters. People will spend thousands on a boat or engine and skimp on cheap oil and filters. In some parts of the country where summer is short it could ruin your season. Good luck
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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