12 volt coil |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Posted: May-14-2011 at 6:30pm |
Does anyone have a part number or source for a 12 volt coil that does not need an external resister? NAPA is stumped.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Bruce,
What's the coil for? I can't answer you part number question but I'm sure curious! I know different coils with different resistances are used with or without the ballast resistors but that's typical when you are doing a ignition system mod. What happened to the original ballast resistor? Put one back in and use the standard coil????? More info!!! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Pete, it's for the 100 hp Interceptor. It wouldn't start this week and we finally figured it was due to no spark. I swapped out the coil with another old one I had and it fired right up. There is no resistor and the coil that was on the engine has a label that says "exterior resitor not needed". I went into NAPA today and the only ones they could find in their book require a resistor. All young guys there this morning and they didn't know what I was talking about. If I was going to install a resister, where does it go? The old manual doesn't show a resitor in the wiring diagram.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Bruce,
OMG!!!! Yup, young guys behind the computer at Napa! I only hope the had preliminary training at Autozone! Sorry!! OK, you do have or do not have a ballast resistor on the 100? Considering it's age, you should have one! Confirm the volts you get to the coil. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Pete, It does not have one and the manual states that engines with alternators do not have them, so apparently they weren't used. Volts to the coil? That would be on the + side?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Yes, but be sure about the manual and the voltage - you know how things where always mixed up back then!!! I still say you should have a nominal 9 going to that coil. Which engine is this? |
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sweet77
Gold Member Joined: January-06-2011 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 666 |
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Yes there are a lot of young people working the counters at NAPA but most of the guys where i live are pretty good. I am young myself and also learning. the ones i hate are the "OLD FARTS" who have something to "Teach" us young guys and do nothing of the sort. they just tell us how great they are and what they did back in 1975. and all they accomplished in there life is a mediocre parts counter personnel. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Pete, it's the 100, 6 cyl. I'll test the wire going to the coil and see what it reads. I'm finding coils on line. I was just surprised it was not an easy purchase this morning at NAPA. But, now that I'm finding some on line, the question is what resistance is the engine supposed to have? The manual does not say.
Sweet, there was one older guy there that knew what I was talking about. He told the kid he would have to read the specs of each coil in the computer. He said 20 years ago he would have known the number. Sound familiar? |
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sweet77
Gold Member Joined: January-06-2011 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 666 |
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Hahaha yeah that sounds familiar i cant stand that!!!
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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They are easy enough to find on line. Don't know why the auto parts stores can't come up with one easy. The old Interceptor parts manual list it as well. This appears to be it.
http://pertronix.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/116621/40511 |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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What do these ballast resistors actually do? I realize they are the norm on most of our boats but I don't get why.
It sees like the resistor is lowering the voltage, just to have the coil up it again before it goes to the distributor? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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The purpose of a ballast resistor is to lower the voltage on the primary side of the ignition circuit. This reduces the wear on the trigger mechanism. Distributors equipped with points will usually require them, else you stand to wear them out prematurely. Electronic distributors with optical sensors tend to require ballast resistors as well. Most magnetic pick up style allow you to eliminate the resistor and run the sensor on a full 12V. The lowered input voltage at the coil does not significantly reduce its output voltage (30kV+), which is what is sent through the cap and to the spark plugs. Marinizers handled the need to drop the voltage at the points differently. Some, like PCM, used big ballast resistors installed on the motor. Others used in-line resistors (resistive wires). Others used resistive coils (which is what Bruce is looking for). All do the same thing (knock the voltage down at the points). You just dont want to use more than one method at a time, or you stand to lower the voltage too much, which causes no-spark or weak spark conditions. When swapping out to electronic ignition, you also need to follow the distributor/module's manufacturer's recommendation on supply voltage. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I actually feel adding the ballast resistor came about after the switch from a 6 volt (9 volt on some tractors) to the 12 volt. They found out real quick that the 12 to the coils caused problems. The same ignition parts could be used by just adding the resistor.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Tim, where were you all weekend? I could have used your help. Pete, a tractor web site had the most info on it and got me sorted out. I was surpised to find that Interceptor was using internal resistance on their engines so far back. If you have an alternator on your Dunphy, it shouldn't have an external resistor, although one could have been added. I've got just under 12 volts at the battery and 11 volts at the coil, so I need the linked coil.
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MartyMabe
Grand Poobah Joined: February-21-2006 Location: High Point,NC Status: Offline Points: 3974 |
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The old Standard Ignition # here at CarQuest
UC-15 Internal Resistor UC-12 External Resistor We keep about 2 of each of these in stock. Also guys--not wanting to jinx it--- But when my dad bought the Skylark- the 'drunk' owners had just tuned it up. But could not get it to fire. They got fed up with it, saying that they were working on it every weekend, putting points and a condensor on it. Said who had $1000 and it was their's. My dad whipped out a check, they took it, He un-hooked the ballast resistor, turned the Distributor Cap around 180', and it fired right up! The guys threw-up in the lake, and said that we couldn't have the trailer for it to get it home--Just because they were pissed that they overlooked that. So that's why the Skylark never had a #2 trailer under it. Short story-- to this Day we have never hooked the Ballast Resistor up, and I've only changed the points maybe 3 times in the 40 years, and that's only because when we put new wires on it, we changed them! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Good info and story, Marty. I knew this wasn't spposed to be so complicated.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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Its the collapsing field that produces the spark, its not really a stepup transformer per se. Its a DC system, If you left the key on, it would toast up quick at above 12 amps, its a dead short of small guage wire. In an AC system a coil's inductance would produce its own reluctance and limit the current that way. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Thanks, makes a little more sense now.
I read this: http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html so that helped a little too. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Bruce, You mentioned this before and I did not ignore your comment. I can't remember if there's a ballast resistor on my 312 or not!! I've never had a problem so I've never gone looking troubleshooting with the VOM!! I looked in the manual I bought from marineengine.com and they must be different in some respects to the one Reid got and sent all the copies around. There is nothing in mine indicating the use of a ballast resistor if the engine is equipped with a alternator or generator. When I get up north this coming Memorial day weekend, and get the X55 in the water, I'll make sure I take a look. BTW, I still remember that manual incident. I had just ordered one from marineengine and within a week Reid comes up with the freebies!!! However, I did find out that the purchased manual does have more of the component pictures and Interceptor part numbers in the back of it. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Pete, it's in the wiring diagram. Those marineengine.com manuals are not all they're cracked up to be, especially for the price. I've bought 2 of them and the middle 70 pages is the same filler stuff on both of them. They advertise to make you think you're getting this great Interceptor shop manual, but they've been cobbled together with a collection of the guy's stuff.
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