gas in oil |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Posted: June-06-2011 at 11:16am |
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So we were going to take the boat out this weekend but when we got to the ramp the boat wouldnt turn over very well. Acted like a dead battery. We had the battery tested and it definitely wasnt 100%. So we tried jumping it and while it would turn over it still wouldnt fire. At this point we thought it may be hydraulic locked and when we removed the spark plugs there was fuel down in the cylinder. Then upon further inspection there was some fuel on top of the head, like the carburetor was leaking. Then we checked the oil and sure enough it smelled like gas and was very thin.
The strange thing is the carburator was recently rebuild, by myself which might be the problem, and it ran fine right after the rebuild, no leaks. Any ideas what could be happening? We did pump the gas alot while trying to get it to start which may have been where all the gas came from. I dropped the carburetor off at a marine mechanic for him to inspect. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I had the starter and alternator checked they are both working, as a side note. This boat has never not started right up. |
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Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
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How long did you crank it? You could have flooded it by cranking or it could be a Carb problem. Change the oil and filter and find the cause of the extended cranking. If you still have trouble check the carb.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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And, get a new battery (not a deep cycle), check your cables and their connections.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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uh well there was quite a bit of cranking. I did get a new battery, the biggest one I could fit in the well. 800 cold cranking amps, in all the cranking I think we burnt up the solenoid. So I got a new one of those (it wouldnt stop cranking) had to yank battery. I also got new spark plugs just because why not, The oil has been draining overnight and I will put new in today.
What really worried me about the carb was obviously the gas in the oil but also the gas laying on the head, it was in the back of carburetor the secondary side. How could it be leaking out? I have all new gaskets, could I have overtightened the screws on the bowls and cracked something? Its hard to say where exactly it leaked from, there was some laying the gasket between the carb and the head. Could we have cranked so much it overflowed down into the oil and there is nothing wrong with the floats? I really think the lack of starting initially was from the battery, it was from walmart, so no surprise low quality and I took it to a very respectable mobile electric place (not a chain store) and they said it was not right and a cheap battery. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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one more thing, I noticed on the back of the engine there is a white thing, I am guessing some kind of resistor because volts on the one side read 12.5 and 5.7 coming out the other. Does anyone else have that? Why wouldnt it keep it at 12? Seems like it is knocking the voltage down before it gets to the coil. Tried to check coil, etc and reading 5.7 there so wiring must be ok up to that point in the chain. Havent checked spark wires yet.
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Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
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That white thing sounds like the ballast resistor are you running points? If the float in the carb sticks open it will cause severe flooding.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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You definitely need to check your battery cables and their connections. Yes, a weak battery will weld the statrt relay (solenoid) contacts together but bad cables and connections will also cause a voltage drop. The low voltage causes a high amp (Ohms law) that the relay can't handle - So will a deep cycle battery. You didn't get a deep cycle did you? People swear by Walmarts Everstart batteries! |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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yes, running points. All original equipment, its an 86. The boat ramp was kind of steep could it have run out the aircleaner somehow if the float was stuck open or something?
Signal flow to the starter and points is correct the only thing I havent checked is the plug wires but I think I probably have spark, I think the problems are fuel air related on not starting. The float thing scares me because obviously that could trash my engine. Thats a big problem. So I am still waiting to hear back from the carburetor guy. The rebuild kit I used had some gaskets that werent exactly the same as what was in it. I got it from NAPA and it was for a 600cfm holley marine. It seemed like it was blocking a few of the vacuum holes though. Thats why I took it in. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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no I didnt get a deepcycle but the everstart that was on there was a deep cycle. I tested the cables for volts and they seemed good, should I test for ohms/amps or because the voltage checks out that eliminates the scenario you mentioned (ohms law etc.)
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The 5.7 on the coil side of the ballast resistor is on the low side. You should check to make sure it's the correct one. Yes, with a point set, you do not feed the nominal 12 coil. Nominal 12 to the resistor and you should get 8 to 9 out the other side to the coil.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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I was swearing AT Walmarts Everstart batteries! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Volts under load (when cranking) to the starter will give you a idea of the voltage drop. Compare it to what you have at the battery when cranking. The OEM cables are notoriously undersized and cheap non tinned and non marine rated. It wouldn't be a bad idea to put a new set in. There's a couple recent threads on the subject. The deep cycle was a problem!!! |
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Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
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I wouldnt worry about trashing the engine gas in the oil will eventually ruin bearings. I would be more worried about fire. Rebuild kits fit multiple carbs you should always lay the old gaskets on top of the new gaskets and make sure all the holes line up. Get the carb back and see where you are at. If you need more help just call me and I will walk you through it. 219-712-5060
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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ya, that may be good advice. I know a place that can make me a set, same place I got my battery/alternator/starter checked out.
I didnt get a deep cycle but just out of curiousity why wouldnt I want one. I guess I dont really understand the difference. There was a deep cycle on there maybe thats why it crapped out and I had issues. It was a fairly new battery 04/2010. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Justin,
A deep cycle battery is designed for low amp draws over a long time like for a trolling motor. It's the opposite of a starting battery where you need high amps for a short time. The deep cycles internal resistance causes quite a voltage drop when you put a high amp load on them. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Ya, thanks so much for help/advice. I think there was something wrong with that carb kit. Two of those gaskets were not the same and I should have not put it on. I did what you said about comparing the gaskets and noticed. What I did was poke two holes where the vacuum lines where blocked but maybe there was other issues I didnt notice. It was the vacuum lines where the mix adjustments where on the bowls. I thought, that seems strange better open those up. Who knows what else could be the issue. I didnt mess with the floats or rebuild them so maybe they need attention. I just hope I didnt crack something or cause major damage in the carb. I dont want to pay 500 for a new one. Ill let you know when I get the carb back or talk with the mechanic to see what he thinks. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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ah ok that makes sense. Luckily the guy I bought the battery from knew his stuff and when he sold me the battery he asked what I was using it for and told me I dont need or want a deep cycle. He was right, I just didnt know why! |
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Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
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Deep cycle batteries are designed to supply smaller amounts of power over longer periods of time. Starting batteries are designed to supply large amounts of power to the starter during cranking. I am not sure what all the battery and cable talk is . My understanding is you had no problem cranking witch would be a starting system problem[ battery,cables] I think you have a problem elsewhere.
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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ya, I think that may just be preventative more than anything. Its working now it was just the initial dead battery problem. I think while trying to start it with the weak battery we managed to flood it. Then when I took it home to jump it was full of gas and it was turning over, not very fast but turning over and maybe was too flooded to start. Who knows I guess there could be a distributor issue, I am just trying to rule out things. At that time we thought the starter might have been shot but it checked out. Se we got a new battery and solenoid. So we put those in and then noticed the fuel on the engine, then the fuel in the gas so we got freaked out and yanked the carb. Thats where i stand now. If I get the carb back and put it on, after the new spark plugs and oil change and it still wont start then, I will need to start checking wiring.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Michael, I'm talking cables/battery/connections trying to rule out a low voltage condition that would cause a weak spark/slow crank and hard starting. He did state:
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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You make a good point pete, While in the past this boat has always started right up it has never turned over very fast. Now that could have been due to a weaker battery, but it also could be because of the cable. Maybe when I get it back together, I will test the crank with the new battery and see if it is faster and check voltage drop. That will probably indicate a immeadiate need for battery cable replacement. I may just do it anyway, one less thing to go wrong on the lake. |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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what guage wire you think I should get? Should I be sure to get marine grade wire or just make sure it is tinned copper? I see that jamestown distributors has cable you can buy to make your own, any thoughts on that?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Justin,
You probably have #2 cables in there now. I'd go at least 2 sizes up which will be 1/0. some have even gone to 2/0. Marine will automatically be tinned and be easyier to get. Just tinned non marine will be harder to find and I doubt much of a cost difference. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Justin,
We also just had a thread a couple days ago that may help. Take a look at: Battery cables |
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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Hey guys,
Boat fired right up and ran great last night. Thanks for all your help. No oil/gas issues so far. Turned over strong. I went with a 1ga battery cable seemed like it made a difference, that and a big new battery. Thanks again!! |
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