S.O.S. - Part Deux

Check out this thead Tom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyjgzPN4yg0

more than once when they (seasoned mechanics) swap the intake from old to new, the intake will leak........
if anything, try a leak down test on each cylinder, its where the heat is created and most likey one of the spots that there would be a crack if any. but again, if water enters a cylinder, typically it would burn off and not be seen in the sump (pan) really, i would take a good close look at the intake and thrmostat area underneath where it is housed, ive found small cracks in the thermostat area before. its really is unlikely for a head to be cracked outside of the domed area between an oil and water passage, but ive been wrong in the past....just trying to guide you a bit

Tom, Im sure someone more seasoned than I will chime in, but Eric's advice of doing a compression test (followed by a leakdown test if necessary) is a good one. A leak could be coming from the intake, exhaust, head or block... I would do whatever tests you can before breaking the engine down. If you do determine the heads to be the problem, I would not spend a dime on the stock heads- Id go with a fresh set of GT40p's for $400 instead and get a 40hp bonus along with it.

Edit: If you want to drag it out this way on Sat or Sun, do it! I cant promise you we'll get any serious trouble shooting done, but we'd be happy to stand around the boat drinking beer and speculating!

Thanks for the continued input guys. I will check out the plugs/cyls and see what I find. I have a compression guage but nothing set up to do a leakdown test (yet).

The motor cranks easily and fires right up. I didn't notice any hesitation on starting. Runs quite well other than the rough idle/stalling when warm. It does like a pump of the throttle to start, even when warm. I was thinking that is most likely a carb issue, the carb was replaced with a new holley 3 years ago, but I don't know if he stabilized it this winter (told me he drained the fuel).

Beers sound good Tim, better than crying over the broken boat at home :-) I will try and escape the honeydo list on Sunday...stuck at work on Saturday!

and luch does bring up a good point, if it does sit for an extended period and you hit the key and it locks up, most likely the water is going into the cylinder...

Hey Mark, thanks for the message...it was good to see you guys out there again...looks like I won't be out the next few Mondays....if you guys ever need a third, let me know!! Might be a couple weeks before I can give Joe that pull :-)

Tom, run a compression test first- that will tell you which cylinders to look at more closely (with a leakdown test). When performing a leakdown test, you want both valves on that cylinder to be closed. Youre looking for where air is escaping (where its not supposed to).

Ha, Im always up by now, Eric- Im just usually on the road! Got the day off today. Marriage? You relax!

Yes, Sage's boat is going (for the most part)- thanks again! Its not running quite up to par at the moment, but the problem is unrelated to F/N/R so Im guessing the tranny has nothing to do with it.

Warm up the engine connected to a water hose, you could disconnect the #6 plug wire to see if the cylinder is igniting.
After shutdown take the plug out and crank to see if any water is going out. Maybe the leak appears when hot.

You should start pondering how much time you can/want to invest in solving this issue as a teardown might be in order. You could have the manifolds tested, but if they check out OK you're going for the engine.

Tom - I also had a single plug that kept fouling. The cause was worn valve stem seals (they were hardened & cracked). I put new seals in & problem is completely solved.

Hmmm, hot compression checked out...6 cyls at 125psi, two at 120psi. I guess that eliminates a head gasket/head issue?

Other stuff - Trying to figure out the fouled plug on #6 - Installed a new set of Autolite 24's gapped to .035, tried pulling some plug wires at idle, she definitely idles rough when warm, strangely #5 and #1 didn't seem to make much difference when pulled but the other plugs dropped rpm considerably. The cap and rotor look a little tired, I think I am going to change rotor cap and wires just for the heck of it. Discovered that the timing was way advanced - like 20degrees BTDC at idle. Weird, but she backfires on acceleration (no load in driveway) when I set it at 6 degrees. Hoping the cap/wires are the problem with #6.

Also noticed fuel leaking from the plug over the secondary float adjustment. Can this be fixed by rebuilding carb? I'm debating springing for a new Holley to see if it fixes the idle issues + take care of that fuel leak - makes me nervous.

Anyway I'm getting off topic - I think my next step on the water in crankcase issue is to pull the exhaust manifolds, have them checked out and reinstall with new gaskets. If that doesn't fix the issue, I guess the next step is to pull the intake manifold and check that gasket out. Do you guys agree? Or am I being premature thinking that the heads and head gaskets are ok based on compression test?

im with Luch, at some point you would notice a hydrolock if the exhaust manifolds were leaking, Yes they do look like they are leaking and need to be addressed, but, how is the oil now after a few runs?
im still leaning towards the intake as being the culprit

Tom,

Just to throw a curve ball at you. Is there a possibility your carb is leaking excessively, to the point where gas is getting into your crankcase? With that really fouled plug, and hard warm startup, I'd say you definitely have a fuel leak issue. A leaky carb can load up the engine, and make it tough to start. If it leaks enough, it can get past the rings into your crankcase too. Was that really fouled plug towards the back?

Next time you have your motor running, carefully remove the spark arrestor. Then shut the motor off. Tilt the choke plate if you have to and look down all 4 barrels. If you see fuel continuing to drip, then you have some kind of carb issue.

I'd tend to want to look at your carb before pulling the intake manifold, as it sounds like you could have issues there anyway, especially if you are no longer seeing obvious signs of water.

Dont want to be hard on you but I'd wait a little for ordering unneeeded parts as you might be saving for some more expensive later.

Concentrate at one issue at the time, the oil/water issue is the most important I think. Then you play-tune it, carb and ignition.

How does the oil look now?

Guys, thanks so much for your continued comments on my issues. Luch, I agree that unnecessary spending on parts would be foolish by me at this point. However, I have given some more thought to things. Brian, thanks for continuing to spur on the thought process here.

Not sure how much water it would take to be noticable in the oil. However, the last time I drained it (after 6 hrs on the lake) I didn't see any evidence of milkiness. I'm not actually 100% positive that the oil level was elevated after my last time out, as it looked ok with the boat in the water but measured higher on the trailer. I'm thinking that it might not be quite level on the trailer. Lately I have been thinking there may not have been any water as it seems to me it wouldn't take much to be noticeable.

Also, I have given more thought to what happened the day before I found the milky oil. Right at the end of the day, the boat was idleing very rough and stalled when my buddy was about to put it in gear to give me a pull. He was unable to start the boat and was having trouble getting it to crank with me in the water. We had been having trouble starting the boat all day due to a bad negative battery cable connection (which I have since fixed.)

I got back on board the boat, fiddled around with the negative connection, and got the boat to crank, but just barely and after a lot of fiddling. After several tries, it finally cranked fast enough to start and we headed back towards the ramp. We ran into our buddies (Mark Mel and Joe) just about at the ramp and shut down to chat for a while. This time on startup the boat cranked right over. We headed back to the ramp and pulled the boat as it was sunset. I found water in the oil a week later when checking it before heading to the lake.

At the time, I thought starting issues were all due to the bad battery connection. However, now I am thinking the boat may have been hydrolocked and that is why it cranked so slowly. So I am still thinking bad riser gaskets/manifolds on the water issue.

Is there any way I would be more likely to get more water in the cyls after excessive cranking with no start, if the riser gaskets/manifolds were leaky? As I am now thinking my buddy was cranking it a bunch with no start and me in the water before it started turning over slowly that day.

Amazing how complicated these issues can be, I am hoping with the new carb and better idling I won't be stalling/cranking so much.

I guess the two questions are - how much water in the oil to make it look milky/noticable? And, is my hydrolock scenario plausible? Right now I am just planning on running the boat after new carb/tuneup is complete and see if the hydrolock condition occurs again/keep a very close eye on the oil. Does this make sense? Should I be pulling manifolds to check first?

If you guys are still reading at this point, again, thank you all so much for any input!