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73SN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Water pump
    Posted: July-11-2011 at 8:07pm
This may be a dumb question but I gotta ask it:

I have a '73 Ski Nautique with a 351 that overheated this weekend.

Does the water pump on the front of the engine function or is it just a cover and receptacle?

It has a pulley but I'm just wondering why have two: impeller and regular pump.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 8:30pm
Paul,
Yes, both pumps have a definite purpose. The RWP (raw water pump) that's been added onto the marinization is a semi positive displacement pump that's needed to lift (suction head) the water up to the engine. The OEM centrifugal pump will not do that. The OEM circulation pump is simply there to circulate water though the block as needed depending on how open the T stat is.

So, tell us more about your overheat. You haven't been running the engine without water have you? BIG time BAD!!!


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73SN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 9:31pm

Oh no, I know better than that. Thanks, I suspected as much on the two pumps but wasn't sure after getting it off and looking at it, especially as loosely as it turned. I haven't had any problems and we've been on the water 4 or 5 times over the last couple of months. We were headed up river on Saturday, I'd say about 25-30 minutes into the trip north doing about 35 mph and I heard a high pitched noise gradually get louder. The water temp indicator read about 150 which was unusual so I eased off and kept it at about idle speed but sped back up for a bit so I could look out the back to see if water was flowing and its was, not sure it was enough though. I raised the engine cover and had my wife cut the engine. I saw a puff of smoke from the oil cap which really scared me. I could tell it was hot.
I just got back from the marina and they'll have to send it off for rebuild. They tell me I'm down for a week. I hope it doesn't end up being the RWP when its all said and done. It is 38 years old after all and may need rebuild just for good measure. I try to keep on top of things but didn't see this coming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 9:41pm
how hot did it get?
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73SN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 11:10pm
All I have is a water temp gauge. The highest I saw was 160 after I shut 'er down. I've never seen it much more than 100.
I don't know exactly where that is measured but I figured it would rise after shut down with no water running thru the engine. The radiating heat was more than I've felt before so I know it wasn't normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 11:22pm
Also, I just reread above and didn't realize it had a thermostat. How does that work? I can understand a car because the water is contained in the block and warms to open it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure its a pump problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-11-2011 at 11:23pm
If you never saw more than 100 I'd dare saying you are running without a thermostat, 160 wont damage the engine.

This is all considering the gauge/sender are good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greasy Lake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2011 at 7:19pm
Hypothetically, what would be so wrong about running our boats without a thermostat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2011 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Greasy Lake Greasy Lake wrote:

Hypothetically, what would be so wrong about running our boats without a thermostat?

Not given,
The marine engine industry learned way back in the 40's that engine temps need to be controlled to maintain efficiency as well as oil viscosity. If you need to run without a T stat, you have a problem that needs addressing.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-25-2011 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by 73SN 73SN wrote:

Also, I just reread above and didn't realize it had a thermostat. How does that work? I can understand a car because the water is contained in the block and warms to open it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure its a pump problem.

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Paul,
Yes, both pumps have a definite purpose. The RWP (raw water pump) that's been added onto the marinization is a semi positive displacement pump that's needed to lift (suction head) the water up to the engine. The OEM centrifugal pump will not do that. The OEM circulation pump is simply there to circulate water though the block as needed depending on how open the T stat is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-26-2011 at 11:53pm
Any tips before I get started on the water pump?

Not sure what the extra screws are for:

http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/house777/Boat%20Pics/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 12:24am
not that water pump!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 12:37am
Originally posted by 73SN 73SN wrote:

Any tips before I get started on the water pump?

Not sure what the extra screws are for:

http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc430/house777/Boat%20Pics/

It sure would be nice if we new knew if you are concerned about your RWP or the circ pump!! Your attempt at trying to provide a link flunked BIG time!!!


What extra screws?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 12:46am
I hope it's not that pump you took to the marina.The only things that go wrong with them is either they leak out the weep holes or get noisy. Some older marine engines don't even have those pumps,they rely only on the raw water pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeganino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 12:51am
Pete the images showed up for me... pics

The 2 screws hold the backing plate on the water pump. They go side by side on the top I think. Make sure that your mating surfaces are very clean. Had to redo mine since the gasket was leaking like a sieve. I also broke a bolt over torquing it and had to start all over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 1:06am
What rotation is that circ pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 1:14am
Green plastic pump?   Maybe painted red?

Look inside!   Maybe Toast!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 2:50am
Thanks all,
Sorry if the pic link didn't work I tried a few different ways and it worked for me with highlight and right click on "go to ...."
I'm replacing the circulation pump first.

I'm not positive thats the problem and it may end up being the RWP. I'm guessing by the high pitch sound location and the water flow rate that its not the RWP. I'll deal with it next if this doesn't cure it.

They told me they couldn't match it and they'd have to send it off for rebuild. 2 weeks later they told me they had it and I get there and its not the same pump...
It has two extra holes closer to the shaft and two small stainless screws with it. After closer inspection I'm sure they're useless. They dont hold the plate on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 2:58am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

I hope it's not that pump you took to the marina.The only things that go wrong with them is either they leak out the weep holes or get noisy. Some older marine engines don't even have those pumps,they rely only on the raw water pump.


That was my original concern about having a RWP only. Wish I'd have popped open the old pump before I dropped it off.
I was trying to rush and get the kids wakeboarding before summer vacation is over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 3:20am
Originally posted by 73SN 73SN wrote:

Also, I just reread above and didn't realize it had a thermostat. How does that work? I can understand a car because the water is contained in the block and warms to open it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure its a pump problem.


Marina Mechanic explained: The water circulates without flowing thru the exhaust until the thermostat opens. it flows higher in the engine and water manifold and then thru the exhaust as the thermostat opens. Mine is probably stuck open. That part looks original and untouched.
(Assuming I'm looking in the right spot)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 4:43pm
Better change marina's fast. Water always flows thru the exahust,otherwise the rubber or in some cases fiberglass,would get hot and burn thru leaving you at the bottom of the lake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Better change marina's fast. Water always flows thru the exahust

I agree and unless you misunderstood the mechanic, he had better go back to school!! Water flows through the engine as needed controled by the T stat and always through the exhaust manifolds.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 5:24pm
And, next time you talk with your Marine mechanic, make sure you ask him if he once worked at Sears Automotive Center.

Water by-passes to cool exhaust, so that it doesn't turn a '73 SN into a pretty habitat for fish.
Keep it....from sinkin'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-27-2011 at 10:38pm
I'm bad about misunderstanding folks. I'm sure he meant it didnt flow from engine block thru the exhaust. He never said it didnt flow when it wasn't open. He didnt have time to fully explain it and I made some ASSumptions. Thanks all for straightening that out.

I went back today to pick up a new bilge pump and took another look at the old circulation pump. (they still had it) once again I misunderstood: the two screws do hold on the plate. I had the gaskets swapped and was confused about the relation to the extra holes in the new pump.

I'll try not to rush thru things before I post next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 1:56am
Thats ok Paul,you don't learn anything if you don't ask.We just don't want to see anyone taken advantage of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-28-2011 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by 73SN 73SN wrote:

I'm bad about misunderstanding folks. I'm sure he meant it didnt flow from engine block thru the exhaust. He never said it didnt flow when it wasn't open.

You're cool!!! Now you know!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2013 at 11:46pm
I've learned a good bit taking this beast apart... hate to look back at old posts now but thought this one would be a good one to revisit on the raw water pump. I figured it'd be a good time to replace some innerds while I had it apart. can anyone tell me about this type and where I can get an impeller? The rest looks good but the rubber is a bit dry rotted on a leg or two: (I've had it 8 years now)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-29-2013 at 11:49pm
This may be the impeller you are looking for.
Thanks,

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2013 at 12:07am
Pics:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-30-2013 at 12:11am
Thanks Jeff. Its a bit different on the shaft, (no key)
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