Debt

ononewheel wrote: So you claim the laws are not being enforced.....                   then Obama's stance hasn't been much different than any other president, so he gets the blame. However, he is deporting them, and in record numbers. Yeah, not as fast as you would like, but nothing is working as fast as it should be right now.

Obama has one aunt that succesfully fought deportation and now an uncle who is illegal and going through the courts, Do you think this might affect his views?

Bush wanted to build a wall but was for the most part succesfully blocked by democrats. A little different from Obamas stance of only deporting violent criminals. He may be deporting record numbers but I know you like percentages for fairness, I bet as a percent of the growing illegal hispanic polulation in the US, deportation numbers are down.

so who would be paying these groups to come work the fields? maybe the North should come up with an emancipation again?
kill the incentive and they wont wanna come here

I think the border patrol are the only ones hiring nowadays

So you claim the laws are not being enforced.....

                  then
I correct you on a misleading statement you have made,

and you try to bring your argument back by saying there is some improvement, but not enough for me, so Ononewheel you are wrong and trying to call the sky black.

Obama's stance hasn't been much different than any other president, so he gets the blame.


++++ for doing a fine job on explaining the current lack of support for Obama by Mexicans.


I don't condone Obamas stance on "buying the Mexicans" we all know what is happening.

However, he is deporting them, and in record numbers. Yeah, not as fast as you would like, but nothing is working as fast as it should be right now.

I contend Obama wants them for the votes, and the republicans have already realized they don't need them anymore, they can treat all Americans like the Mexicans.


By the way, the Arizona law really amounts to requiring or allowing Arizona police to stop and require Mexicans to prove their citizenship.

That is messed up, and if you say it isn't you are. So an immigrant from Germany, or Canada doesn't have the same risks? Require it for you too, and you view might change. Imagine haveing to prove your citizenship over and over.

The US military is full of Mexicans, they are fighting for you.

ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: On Healthcare, get the government out of the way, and let the free market come in to compete, and costs will come down. Right now, the government won't let insurance companies compete across state lines. Its amazing what will happen to costs when you have competition. I am in the plastics industry, and I see it everyday. COSTS COME DOWN!!! When is the last time the government managed anything efficiently? They can't even send a letter out without losing money. Your above statement is exactly why we have a problem here. It's the race to the bottom. I know, let's just forgo our immigration laws and allow a bunch of Mexicans to come here and work for much lower wages.    Woooo! I could debate you on each point you made, but, this one is just too good to pass up. Are you saying you actually think our immigration laws are really being enforced?? You have got to be kidding me!! Obama doesn't want the Mexican's for their low cost labor....he wants them for their VOTES!!! Just ask the Governor of Arizona about all the "help" the Feds are offering her in the fight against illegal immigration. The Justice Dept. is suing Arizona because they ARE enforcing our laws. Obama has bent over backwards to pander to the Hispanic population as he knows he needs these votes to have a chance of winning the election.    Here I did the work for you. Deportation More deportation news Even more, this one is homeland security Still want more?

OOW....Nice try my friend! Throwing numerous links at me to make me seem uninformed. I swear to god, if one was looking right at a bright blue sky, a liberal will throw hundreds of articles at you to convince one that the sky is really black, and that you don't know what you are talking about. Typical liberal tactics. I am used to it. Oh, then claim checkmate on the way out the door:).   

I read your articles on deportation, and I would urge others to as well. Nothing much new there or rock solid conclusions one way or the other. So, yes, I will grant you that deportation is up slightly under Obama. A 5% increase year over year, is not exactly a big deal, but, its better than nothing. I think everybody knows the Dems stance on illegal immigration. They are for it!!! Please don't try to deny that.

- Fact: Obama ran on a platform of comprehensive immigration reform in 2008. He garnered Hispanic support for his election then.

- Fact: When the dems held the House, the Senate, as well as the Presidency in 2009-10, they had a chance to pass immigration reform, but, they did not sir.
     --- Reason: Obama was too busy passing the Porkulus and Healthcare. He knew if he tackled comprehensive immigration too, a real firestorm would be set off, and the Dems would have lost even worse than they did last Nov.

This is the reason the Hispanics are so upset with Obama now. He promised he would do something, and he didn't. However, unless a Marco Rubio is on the ticket next November, I doubt the Hispanics will support Republicans in large percentages, as Republicans are firmly in support of the nations immigration laws. Obama gets waffly there. He likes to have it both ways. Appear to support the laws, but offer back door amnesty as he is doing now.   

- Fact: Obama likes to give speeches. He gives supportive speeches to pander to Hispanics, and they buy it. He is looking for cheap votes. Your articles state this.

- Fact: Obama gave a speech to a Hispanic group last year before the elections urging Hispanic voters to go out and "vote against, or punish our enemies"...ie...the Republicans (who firmly support immigration laws).

- Fact: Just a week or so back, the Justice Dept has announced that "they don't have the resources to deport non-criminal illegals". This is back door amnesty, and Obama hopes it will play well with Hispanics so he can get thier votes, while not angering the general population too much as many people may not follow politics as closely as we do.

Since you like links and articles, I will give you one. Attached is a statement from it....


In a radio interview that aired on Univision on Monday, Mr. Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul after the midterm elections, despite fierce Republican opposition.

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

Referring specifically to Republicans such as Senator John McCain, who are stressing border security and supporting strict immigration laws like Arizona’s anti-illegal immigration measure, Mr. Obama said, “Those aren’t the kinds of folks who represent our core American values.”

Obama Urges Hispanics to Punish Enemies of Immigration Reform

davidg wrote: ononewheel wrote: davidg wrote: On Healthcare, get the government out of the way, and let the free market come in to compete, and costs will come down. Right now, the government won't let insurance companies compete across state lines. Its amazing what will happen to costs when you have competition. I am in the plastics industry, and I see it everyday. COSTS COME DOWN!!! When is the last time the government managed anything efficiently? They can't even send a letter out without losing money. Your above statement is exactly why we have a problem here. It's the race to the bottom. I know, let's just forgo our immigration laws and allow a bunch of Mexicans to come here and work for much lower wages.    Woooo! I could debate you on each point you made, but, this one is just too good to pass up. Are you saying you actually think our immigration laws are really being enforced?? You have got to be kidding me!! Obama doesn't want the Mexican's for their low cost labor....he wants them for their VOTES!!! Just ask the Governor of Arizona about all the "help" the Feds are offering her in the fight against illegal immigration. The Justice Dept. is suing Arizona because they ARE enforcing our laws. Obama has bent over backwards to pander to the Hispanic population as he knows he needs these votes to have a chance of winning the election.

So the justice dept. is suing because Arizona is enforcing the law, really? Nice, sort of like telling half of the truth.


Better check your facts on that too. They are suing, but not for the reason you stated.

State laws cannot preempt the Constitution, nor Federal Law, and that is what where relief is being sought in court. I know you'll say I am being a little too technical. But as a tea party sympathizer you should be all for upholding the Constitution, that is what they stand for after all, right?   

Wait I'll do you work on this one too.



Federal lawsuit

Here is the actual lawsuit, via Fox news

Checkmate.

Wooo!

Better check your facts, Obama has deported more Mexicans than you think.

Check into it, and then repost. In fact look at the support from Mexicans for Obama, explain why the support is so low.


Shhesh.

Give them the ol "hair folicle test"!! Let see if they pass then..

davidg wrote: On Healthcare, get the government out of the way, and let the free market come in to compete, and costs will come down. Right now, the government won't let insurance companies compete across state lines. Its amazing what will happen to costs when you have competition. I am in the plastics industry, and I see it everyday. COSTS COME DOWN!!! When is the last time the government managed anything efficiently? They can't even send a letter out without losing money.

Your above statement is exactly why we have a problem here. It's the race to the bottom.

I know, let's just forgo our immigration laws and allow a bunch of Mexicans to come here and work for much lower wages.

That kind competition is why we are here. Got rid of Gov. controls allowed the private sector to decide what is fair.

Cheaper isn't better. There is a reason you are not tooling around in a Chinese made boat, especially one made 10-15-20 years ago.

davidg wrote: OOW....I am sure there are millions of people that truly don't want to be unemployed. And, that is very unfortunate. I feel for those people. Its too bad that companies like GE are moving jobs to China. You know GE right? Its the company headed up by Jeff Immelt who is Chair of Obama's Jobs Board. Tell me that one doesn't have some bad optics. Employers aren't hiring right now because of our Dear Leaders policies. Its all about the high costs, and uncertainties associated with Obamacare, and other regulations his regime is putting into place. I think you will see employment start to increase once we have a new President and the old policies being repealed. But, regarding "welfare for work", maybe it won't lead to massive new employment, BUT, don't you think that it will do some good? Instead of people not having to lift a finger to get a welfare check, they would at least have to get off their arses, get up in the morning, go to work, learn a skill, and learn how to work with others? Maybe that in turn will lead to the possibility of getting a job when the economy turns around. I fear though that for some in our society, its too late. They have become so accustomed to having the govt take care of them, they are now hopeless. They are the ones that are doing drugs, involved in crime, and have large numbers of illegitmate children because the government has taught them that they can get more $$$$ for each kid they have. Unintended consequences..... Remind me again what is is about liberalism that is so wonderful???

I think I agreed about "welfare to work", 4 times now. Not that I agree with all the stereotypes you cast on them though.

i dont think they can step back and let the free market roll, they do need laws in place, it was in the free market since initiated but got way out of control, its not a product it is a service, but turned into a profitible product. a simple little thing like caps on malpractice law suits would save billions, MP insurnce put the door to door Dr. out of business, and i really believe it caused many doctors to become drug dealers, another problem on this small piece of rock we call the US, drug companies, a joke,
we are a civilized wealthy nation and we should have the best healthcare, but not at the cost of what it is

im still having a very hard time with the HC system in this country, i really feel the insurance companies are in deep dictating, monopolizing, picking and choosing, people are living longer, I could put a new set of tires on a car, but its still a pos, its draining the entire system as Dave points out in an earlier post of one part of a business that suffers you then pull from a positve entity,
something has to be done to the HC system to contain the costs, the COG should go down as time passes, but it isnt, not that long ago, 15 years, i didnt have to come up with a nickle to pay for HC because it was covered by the employer medical, dental, eye 100%. now i pay out of pocket as most do and it crunches your bottem line at home, now you cant buy that new car which stimulates, those new 180.00 Nikes, a boat and so on....start at the core, fck i need a new fridge, but I'll wait

Eric....I prefer to say we are debating and not bickering

On Clinton...yep, times were good under him. He was a good president. Maybe not such a good man (BJ's in the Oval Office). I would also argue that Obama is a good man, but a lousy president.

I say thank god for our two party system. The Republicans are finally starting to act like Republicans should act. As Reagan said...."Let there be bold differences, and not slightly different shades of pastels", or something very close to that, when it comes to our politicians.

If we had a one party system, one party could implement whatever they wanted, and there would never be any pushback. We saw that during Obama's first two years in office. He had the presidency, the House, and the Senate. They shoved healthcare right up our asses. The people didn't want it, but, by god the government was going to make sure we got it. We got it alright. I can't wait to see it repealed.

I will vote for whichever Republican boldly states they are running on a platform to repeal Obamacare. I honestly don't think Romney is the guy. Too much a pastel shade. Rick Perry is a bold contrast.

eric lavine wrote: Dave, as we bicker amongst ourselves, so do those a-holes in DC, its a stalemate, it got to big for its own good, Obama is a weak pres, just like Carter,(doing more good know than when he was CEO) but i watch these debates amongst the GOP and all they do is point, I want someone that is going to pop out from the group and grab the bull by its balls and squeeze, im past the boy who cried wolf. I just shake my head and gave both parties a chance, it really seems to me that its a mockery of what are founding fathers set out to do

I could not sgree more.