WI muffler laws?

We are thinking going to northern WI later this summer. I know WI has an 86dbl noise limit,(which has been pushed at GL... right Reid?)
There is no "grandfather" clause for boats that never came with mufflers, so we are technically illegal.

I know WI has a lot of wooden inboards running their lakes with no mufflers. Does anyone know if "old inboard noise" is a problem anywhere? Does the DNR ever pick on 'glass inboards with no mufflers? Are some areas better/worse than others?

... hmmmmm boats without mufflers!? .. what will they pick on next?

Steve, this came up in 2007 in advance of the 2nd annual GL Reunion.

Tim,
I knew it came up at GL..Reid has personal experience with Barney and his dBA meter.. (Im not sure which boat , but I think it blew around an 86 idling at the dock) I'm not too worried there.

I think the law had just passed and I remember calling Bill at the Bay view asking him about it. It has not been a problem at GL, but like Steve says the DNR does enforce the sled noise level. Just curious if there are any potential areas that do watch it with boats?

Steve , on page 13 (of the brochuer) is a muffler law... 86 dBA

Up at Lake George a few years ago, Quinner was screaming down the lake in Reid's orange mustang and got stopped for noise.   

75 Tique wrote: Up at Lake George a few years ago, Quinner was screaming down the lake in Reid's orange mustang and got stopped for noise.

LOL Larry, Keith was on board as well. The officer pulled us over and then told us to hit the button, we asked what button he was referring to? "The Captains Call Button" he said, LOL.

Took some explaining before he understood there was no silent choice on this particular vessel, LOL. In the end he let us go without any ticket.

Eddie - I could not agree with you more, not to turn this into a WI DNR bash, but as I have said before, those guys have way to much power, they are like the Gustapo. They can come on your land, into your house and search for anything with no warrant.

I wonder if you could have pushed the legal system on the ticket, Where are the witnesses, who's to say you didn't pick up an observer from a cottage.

I am at the point where if I could talk my wife into it, we would be moving south as well.

As an aside, where did you do your footin (would love to learn your secret spots), the lake my in-laws cottage is on has one of those aforementioned No Wake Laws. You have six minutes of good water, if you hit it it two minutes before the No Wake law goes off and everyone sees your footin, they will wait until you finish your path. At which point no less then five boats hit the water towing something. On a 138 acre lake, it goes from mirror to bathtub in about 30 seconds...

Steve,
I really do not feel you will have a problem - that 6 isn't that loud!! I have never had a problem and the only one I do know who has was Reid.

Skiing without an observer is a completely different story.

skutsch wrote: I wonder if you could have pushed the legal system on the ticket, Where are the witnesses, who's to say you didn't pick up an observer from a cottage. As an aside, where did you do your footin (would love to learn your secret spots), the lake my in-laws cottage is on has one of those aforementioned No Wake Laws. You have six minutes of good water, if you hit it it two minutes before the No Wake law goes off and everyone sees your footin, they will wait until you finish your path. At which point no less then five boats hit the water towing something. On a 138 acre lake, it goes from mirror to bathtub in about 30 seconds...

Steve,
I did try fighting the ticket. I got it reduced to $90 but it still sucks.

I did most of my skiing on the Rock river just outside of Johnson Creek. The launch sucked, you constantly had to be very careful about what may or may not be in the water and it was very shallow in spots if you didn't know where to go. It was about a half hour from my house but you could find glass almost any time. I stopped skiing the lakes. The wally's on all of them pretty much sucks now.

It's getting to the point most lakes are getting very similar to what you talk about here. My inlaws have a place in Minoqua on a lake that has been completely ruined in the last ten years due to the LOA setting ski times. I have had the DNR called on me several times because I was violating the LOA skiing rules. The DNR came out and checked me and the boat to make sure I wasn't violatoing the state law (skiing too close to a pier or another boat or doing fliers off the pier because that's illegal now too) but I didn't get a ticket because as far as they're concerned, skiing hours are sunrise to sunset. They still had to check out the complaints. The LOA now makes your life a living hell if the DNR doesn't. No thanks. I'm done with it. I'm completely rid of those problems now.

Yes Pete, skiing without an observer is totally different. Be advised you don't need one of those down here either so why in WI?????? If I still lived up there, no way would I consider removing the mufflers in my boat since the rebuild. No doubt in my mind I would end up with a ticket sooner or later. Down here, no problem. SS 4" straight pipes now that sound so sweet.

Don't even get me started into the f'ed up snowmobiling laws that are the reason I gave that up 20 years ago. Keep in mind that my father-in-law was a Polaris dealer so I had a couple of pretty bad ass sleds for the period.

Sorry for the rant guys, but I do feel better about it now. I think I'll take my very loud boat down to the lake and do some barefoot fliers without an observer on a mirrored lake without any other boat in sight and it's all completely legal. I do need a driver though. John are you around???? I am loving life!!!!!!!!

I've noticed the cops in Florida pretty much leave the loud snowmobiles alone!

62 wood wrote: back to mufflers, why are these boats not grandfathered? They were perfectly legal when they were built.... idiot legislators.

Simple. You're a recreational boat owner that hasn't been sold off in the economic recession....therefore you must have some sort of expendable income....therfore you are at the mercy of the state to try and get some more of that expendable income....therfore you will abide by their rules....therfore they will make your life a living hell until you....
A) Loose your boat to the economic recession
B) Loose your boat to the frustration level of the several fines you accrue
C) Loose your very cool classic ski boat to a more environmentally friendly, quiet, slow no wake, carbon-based life form powered row boat (but you'll get lots of exercise and the LOA will love you and finally stop complaining about the noise but then they realize that they have nothing to complain about so they set up No Row Zones to piss you off even more)
D) Move out of state

This one wasn't even pulled over on Lake Geneva!

john b wrote: I am curious where you got this information. The only ways law enforcement can enter your home without a search warrant are invitation (not asking them not to enter), fresh pursuit, or exigent circumstances. I have written hundreds of search warrants and the constitution hasn't changed.

John, I have come in out of the field to find DNR agents in my pole building - "Can I help you?" Response, "We are just looking to see if you have any deer feed stored in here" (I don't, and I made it pretty clear they weren't welcome and they have never come back). The topic of a warrant never came up. Are DNR agents considered LE?

I also had an acquaintance (occasional visitor at our deer camp) who has had DNR agents walk right into his house (allegedly) and start going through there freezer, looking for illegal or poached purses. Obviously this is heresy and I do not know if they somehow positioned a request to enter as an invitation, but certainly no warrant was served. Granted, the guy I know who had this happen is not one of the "sharpest tools in the shed..." At least he is smart enough not to poach... So my understanding was they do not need warrants - if they do, that is good to know, does that apply to trespassing also, i.e. can they walk on to your land w/o an invitation?

I will also admit w.r.t. snowmobiling, the agents in the south are for more attentive to the noise enforcement then the WI DNR agents up north. Completely different story in MI though. My sense is in WI, it is an other opportunity to check for drunk snowmobilers, I am all for getting as many of those knuckleheads off the trails as possible.

I can't imagine a lake cop anywhere in Wisconsin actually enforcing a noise ordinance on any of our lakes. Most of the lake cops here wouldn't even know how to use a db meter. They barely understand the laws with regard to skiing near shore, docks and other boats.

skutsch wrote: john b wrote: I am curious where you got this information. The only ways law enforcement can enter your home without a search warrant are invitation (not asking them not to enter), fresh pursuit, or exigent circumstances. I have written hundreds of search warrants and the constitution hasn't changed. John, I have come in out of the field to find DNR agents in my pole building - "Can I help you?" Response, "We are just looking to see if you have any deer feed stored in here" (I don't, and I made it pretty clear they weren't welcome and they have never come back). The topic of a warrant never came up. Are DNR agents considered LE? I also had an acquaintance (occasional visitor at our deer camp) who has had DNR agents walk right into his house (allegedly) and start going through there freezer, looking for illegal or poached purses. Obviously this is heresy and I do not know if they somehow positioned a request to enter as an invitation, but certainly no warrant was served. Granted, the guy I know who had this happen is not one of the "sharpest tools in the shed..." At least he is smart enough not to poach... So my understanding was they do not need warrants - if they do, that is good to know, does that apply to trespassing also, i.e. can they walk on to your land w/o an invitation? I will also admit w.r.t. snowmobiling, the agents in the south are for more attentive to the noise enforcement then the WI DNR agents up north. Completely different story in MI though. My sense is in WI, it is an other opportunity to check for drunk snowmobilers, I am all for getting as many of those knuckleheads off the trails as possible.

Yes, DNR agents are law enforcement. They must abide by the law. Even an informant acting under the direction of law enforcement is considered an agent of the police. People have the greatest protection against unreasonable search and seizure in their home, the reasons I mentioned are the only reasons that they can enter without a search warrant. The out buildings have less of an expectation of privacy as do vehicles. If the building is not secured or it is possible to look inside there is some question and many times it is argued in court. Generally LE is not subject to trespass signs on private property unless asked to leave. Any time police exceed their authority any evidence obtained will be suppressed in a motion to suppress hearing meaning, for instance, the that body, gun, and the notes found near it implicating you in the murder can be suppressed and never used against you. There is a lot more here than I can put in a thread. There are many other things that come into play. Inevitable discovery, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, and other things play a part, and the facts of the situation come into play.
I will use this for instance, some of our tactical guys would carry a 12 pack box (filled with pop cans) and a pizza box in their trunk. This was because many of the smarter underage Partyers would refuse to open the door for fhe police when they went to fhe door. The police could look inside and see underage drinking, but could not enter since they had no warrant (a warrant would not be issued for a misdemeanor), and there were no exigent circumstances or and invitation to enter. The tac guys would instead walk up to the door carrying a 12 pack and a couple of large pizza boxes and would always be invited inside. Once they break the plane of the door on an invitation thay can act on the crimes being committee ( underage drinking, occupant responsibility ect)and make arrests and size evidence. I have found that I was seldom refused when I wanted to enter. Often these are called "knock and talks". They start something like this " Hi, we have had complaints of ........at your house from people in your building / neighborhood. Can I come in and talk to you about it? You don't have anything to hide, do you? I'm sure you don't want the neighbors to see/ hear what we are talking about. If they say you can't enter, you can't enter, period. Most people are law abiding and will talk to the police because they are good citizens and support law enforcement and our constitution. Even bad guys frequently want to convince LE that they have nothing to hide.
All that being said, LE officers are people. Most are highly trained, ethical, and will defend the constitution and your life and property with their lives. Being people, however, their are very good ones, average ones, and some who are not so good. Kinda like mechanics or plumbers, they don't get it right every time, especially when they have to make split second decisions when they are relatively new and inexperienced.
I was an FTO for years and I can tell you that the laws are complex. It is a difficult job and their comes a time that you have to cut each newbie loose and trust their judgement or recommend that they be terminated if they aren't making it, and there are so many ways to not make it. This response is not meant to serve as legal advice, if you want that, contact a lawyer. They are just like police though, some are highly talented, most are highly ethical, and they normally will do their best to represent you. Some are better than others however.
About that noise thing and the WI laws. As I said, we have many old inboards running around the chain unmuffled and they are seldom stopped (except for equipment and sobriety checks) when they operate responsibly. Personally I think most people like the old classics and cut them a lot of slack. If is almost always the ones who push the no wake barrier or spend the day buzzing the same dock that get a ticket. Our lake ordinances dictate no wake within 200 feet of a dock or boat EXCEPT for pulling skiers (or boarders) from a dock or dropping them off. Personally I love to watch skiers/boarders. Many are really great athletes and the show is free. I always donate to our Skiing Skeeters ski team and love to watch their show too.
I am not a boat hater and over the course of a summer there are few ski/board boats that are worthy of complaints. Most of the people are courteous and just looking for a good time wherever they come from. Nothing beats the sounds of yelling and laughter from a bunch of happy boaters/ skiers/boarders/ and yes, even tubers on a beautiful summer day.
And that concludes my epic post.

BigAir wrote: I can't imagine a lake cop anywhere in Wisconsin actually enforcing a noise ordinance on any of our lakes. Most of the lake cops here wouldn't even know how to use a db meter. They barely understand the laws with regard to skiing near shore, docks and other boats.

Dude, then you haven't spent time on Green Lake... Barney will pull you over if he doesn't particularly like your boat color.... And they are armed with Db meters...

I'd suggest studying the WI lake rules, so when you get the ticket, you know why........

Moj'