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Coupler Removal and Install

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 9:09am
John,
A tight turn with power ether to port or starboard will cause vibration in any hull due to all the turbulence down there.

As long as you have the shaft out, you might as well set it in some V blocks and get the dial indicator out.

When you get the coupling, I'd be curious as to what the bore measures - the same with the old shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 11:15am
Look up our discussions on prop installations as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 11:21am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


A tight turn with power ether to port or starboard will cause vibration in any hull due to all the turbulence down there.

Correction- this vibration/growl is only "normal" with certain props.

Let me guess- you have a stock 3-blade Federal or OJ on that boat? Ive seen that hull howl like a banshee in hard left hand turn arounds. A new Acme would eliminate it (and improve overall performance a great deal as well).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93 Ski Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 6:40pm
Yes, it's a 3 blade OJ. It really only makes a noise when guys leave too much throttle on in the turns with the Perfect Pass set. I normally like to drop at each end anyways and then you don't notice anything.   

I will check the shaft and everything along the way. New coupler just showed up, and it fits perfectly with the trans shaft piece. That's a good thing and that was my first red flag. I may not be able to replace everything until next week, but I've got my fingers crossed..

Thanks again for all your help!! You guys really know these boats!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by 93 Ski Nautique 93 Ski Nautique wrote:



I will check the shaft and everything along the way. New coupler just showed up, and it fits perfectly with the trans shaft piece. That's a good thing and that was my first red flag.

Did you get the micrometer out and measure? What's "perfect"?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93 Ski Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 7:23pm
I didn't measure it yet, and I'm not sure how you could. I don't think a piece of paper would slide between the 2 faces anywhere.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by 93 Ski Nautique 93 Ski Nautique wrote:

I didn't measure it yet, and I'm not sure how you could. I don't think a piece of paper would slide between the 2 faces anywhere.   

John,
I'm talking the heat shrink fit between the shaft and coupling. You said you received the coupling and it "fits"??????
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
Since you are a mechanical engineer this will be easy for you to understand. The coupling to shaft being a heat shrink fit (-.001" to -.0005") the coupling is tyically bored to match the shaft due to shaft tolerances. Don't count on the new coupling matching the shaft.

Have you read this thread? coupling removal and install If not heat shrunk, you WILL have a problem!!!


A piece of paper is around .002" so in theory you could use it for the shaft alignment since you want no more than .003" Hopefully you have a set of feeler gauges.

Have you seen this video? If not, I think you had better. You had better get back on track with your engineering skills!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93 Ski Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 10:21pm
Yea, I only had a minute and the only thing I did was see how the coupler and transmission interfaced. Unlike my original coupler after I mistakenly thought I could tap that onto the shaft, this coupler and the transmission faces are flush with each other all the way around. I will break out the feeler gauges and everything before I assemble everything, but it "looked" good when I eyeballed it. I didn't realize a piece of paper is .001..

I will watch those videos again before I think about assembling anything.

Thanks again guys!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93 Ski Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-18-2012 at 10:23pm
Make that .002 on the paper
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2012 at 11:43am
i was with a company called inline machining all week optically aligning shafts, pretty slick tools these guys use, but, anyways, they get on Nuc subs and have to align them to 20 millionths of an inch, so the enemy doesnt detect any vibrations...the guy says it takes him a couple weeks and he explained how they measure that small of a number and its pretty complicated...so I guess .002 aint to bad to do.
anyways, the uppers kept quiet because when we put the boat in the water we lost .250 of sag on one side and .150 on the other...the engines were originally up .300 on blocks (dry land) but to obtain a perfect alignment the boat should be in the water for at least 24 hours, any boat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2012 at 11:46am
for all intense purposes though, ski boats are short and rigid and can be done on the trailer, but, if at all possible the finals should be done in the water
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2012 at 10:42pm
Wonder if something like this would help by spraying the shaft right before attempting to slide on the hot coupler. Can states cools down to -60*.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CRC-Freeze-Spray-4YPK4?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 93 Ski Nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2012 at 3:25am
Well, everything you guys said was right on. I cut out the new cutlass bearing, and ordered a another new one (because I was concerned that I damaged the first one installing it). I froze that (2 piece) and it went in most of the way and pulled in the rest of the way with the threaded rod while it was still cold.

I tried to check the shaft for trueness while it was out, appeared to be within .001 one or so, honestly, probably within the error on the micrometer I was using.

The new coupler was reading .998 and the shaft .999. I heated the coupler to 500 for 2 hours, hustled it out to the boat, and it slid right on the shaft.

The alignment is within .003 to the best I can measure. I bolted everything up tonight and I'm hoping for the best.

The more I think about all the efforts to align and stut, trans, etc., and then I wonder how much the engine must move around under load?

Thanks again for all your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2012 at 8:57am
John,
It's great when things go as planned. Most of the time they don't!
Regarding the engine moving, yes, there is flex in the hull. Getting the alignment as close as possible limits misalignment to be equal in all directions. With a misalignment in one direction, that direction is where all the stress is on the shaft and trans. You're cool as long as you got it down to the .003" mark. The alignment can be frustrating at times!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turningpoint84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-22-2012 at 7:48pm
I'm 28 and after i finished doing this, i thought my back was going to break. Cudos to you old people that have done this haha.

Anywho, shaft off, rudder off, strut off, prop off. Who wants to buy them? haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatNautiqueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-10-2012 at 10:13pm
Wow... this is a life saver. I have been out in my boat for the past couple of hours scratching my head once I got to the all intensive "removing the coupler" part. Like the man above I started using a harmonic balancer puller but there is much room and it just didn't feel right. Learning from my past experiences in mechanics I realized that means stop or pay the consequences in blood or $$. After reading all that I have decided to go wait until tax time and go with the A.R.E. system... or perhaps the split coupler. I don't want to deal with walking through my house with a 500 degree piece of hot brass then dodge 4 kids... run outside with it being 30 degrees... kick my dog out of the way... shoulder through the shop just to burn my new carpet or all the way through the hull of the boat. This is highly educational.. thank you for saving me from crying into the night foot fungus!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T_Bone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-08-2018 at 11:52pm
Old thread, but some great information in here.

I have started the process of going through my drive system to figure out what is wrong. On my 2000 Super Air PCM 350. It started with replacing the stuffing, because it was dripping too much. After replacing I couldn't get the packing nut to not be hot even with water constantly streaming in. Upon further investigation it looks like something is bent/miss-aligned. I am thinking the strut is off a bit. the driveshaft seems okay as far as straightness goes. Will know for sure when I get it off and check it thoroughly. My main question right now is:

1. How are you guys handling the coupler when it is 500+ degrees? Do you bolt it to the drive first? or get it slipped on the shaft first? I imagine if you took the time to bolt it to the drive side first it wouldn't be hot enough to slip onto the shaft.

Some direction and insight would be great. Hopefully some of you still frequent this forum that have done this before, maybe a few times.

My other option is to go with the double taper ARE system, which if my shaft is straight, or fixable isn't a great economical option. But might be worth the hassle of not dealing with a burning hot coupler under the vdrive?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2018 at 12:07am
My 95 vdrive has a split coupler,I take it yours does not? I don't know how you would even work on getting a 500 degree coupler on in that restricted area,but it needs to go on the shaft first. If I ever have to take off my other DD's couplers it's going back on with a tapered one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T_Bone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2018 at 12:33am
I believe it has a split coupler. Two bolts going through it perpendicular to the shaft?

Even with that it took quite an amount of force to drive it out of the coupler. I had to make a shaft pusher.

Maybe once I clean up the coupler it will go back in better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2018 at 6:55am
Originally posted by T_Bone T_Bone wrote:



Even with that it took quite an amount of force to drive it out of the coupler. I had to make a shaft pusher.

Maybe once I clean up the coupler it will go back in better?

TJ,
On a spit coupling, once it's on the bench, you can typically "open" it up some by driving something like a screwdriver into the split(s).
Originally posted by T_Bone T_Bone wrote:

. Upon further investigation it looks like something is bent/miss-aligned. I am thinking the strut is off a bit.

Yes, keep in mind alignment always starts at the strut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T_Bone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-09-2018 at 10:03pm
Looks like I will probably have to do that. Even with it off of the boat, I can't reasonable get the coupling on the shaft more than 1/3 of the way.

When I get the driveshaft back I will open up the coupling a little, and make sure it goes on the shaft without any unreasonable force, off the boat; because if not, there is no way I will be getting it on while on the boat.

Thanks for the help and direction. I'm sure I'll run into something else before this is all back together properly.

Picture of coupling for reference.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T_Bone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-11-2018 at 7:27pm
Got all of the parts sorted. Drive shaft had a .070 bow in it, luckily I work right down the street from the prop shop, and they were able to straighten it. Also got new strut bearings from them, and got them installed last night.

One thing I am having a hard time finding out for sure is what to do at the vdrive when aligning. I am working on getting the rough adjustment done right now with the shaft coupling centered on the vdrive coupling, while being centered through the log. By making sure the side-to-side, and up-down play is equal on both sides. As is ken gibbons how to notes an aligning a inboard shaft.

In all the how to's I've seen there is no mention of loosening any bolts at the vdrive. I assume you would have to, to allow it to move with the engine adjustments. Maybe not for a very small amount, but mine seems off quite a bit. As of right now the engine/vdrive need to go about an 1/8 to port. I've loosened the nuts on the bottom side of the vdrive mounts, which are slotted port/starboard, so hopefully when I go to shove the motor around it will follow. I need a bigger 2x4 or something as I couldn't get it to move much.

A link to a better how-to for a vdrive would be great, if anyone has seen a one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drekeith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-09-2019 at 6:00pm
I realize this is an old post so am not sure it will be seen. However, the slide hammer part scares me. I successfully removed my shaft from the coupler with the bolts method. However, I first tried to slide hammer method for a while with my bent up strut (before I did some research on these forums and found this ingenious bolt method). So, I have not reinstalled my coupler and all yet because I have been through nightmare trying to replace a bent strut. I hope I have that solved but that is TBD as well. Anyway, this is a 94 SN with a PCM 1.23: to 1 tranny. My question is…Is there a chance I may have damaged tranny with the beating and banging from slide hammering it and if so, how would I really know…….until it goes out? Reading on other post it appears the V drives are more subject to damage by a slide hammer but I don’t know enough to understand that. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Eacret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 12:02am
After pressing the shaft out of the coupler I sanded both as described in the original post and now the coupler slides on cold, no heat required. Did I sand to much or will this be ok? I didn’t take to much of the shaft but The inside of the coupler had a fair amount of corrosion I removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 3:57am
Originally posted by Travis Eacret Travis Eacret wrote:

After pressing the shaft out of the coupler I sanded both as described in the original post and now the coupler slides on cold, no heat required. Did I sand to much or will this be ok? I didn’t take to much of the shaft but The inside of the coupler had a fair amount of corrosion I removed.


The coupler is designed as an “interference fit”. That means that you should NOT be able to slide the coupler onto the shaft by hand. I’m assuming your shaft is not a double taper shaft. Your shaft or coupler may need to be replaced.

Buck Algonquin makes a split coupler that may work as a replacement. You would need to match up the mounting hole pattern, flange diameter and coupler length.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Travis Eacret Travis Eacret wrote:

After pressing the shaft out of the coupler I sanded both as described in the original post and now the coupler slides on cold, no heat required. Did I sand to much or will this be ok? I didn’t take to much of the shaft but The inside of the coupler had a fair amount of corrosion I removed.

Travis,
Knowing what type of coupling you have is important. A split or taper type are fine to slid on but a straight interference fit isn't. What year boat is it in? Was the corrosion black? If black, then that's typical of fretting caused by misalignment.

Welcome to CCfan. Can you post any pictures?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Eacret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 4:34pm

I own a 1995 Sport Nautique and the coupling looks like it was in good shape just rusty on the inside. As you can see I have sanded it as clean as I could with emory cloth. When I took the coupler apart from the transmission the alignment seemed perfect, the boat never ran with any sort of vibration. The coupler didn't move up, down, left or right once I pulled the bolts out. I did have to give it a couple of gentle taps with a rubber mallet to break it loose. Although after pressing in the new strut bearing is seems to be off to the port side by a little.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 4:39pm
Travis,
That is a solid coupling and the fit to the shaft is a heat shrink/interference fit.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Eacret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 6:12pm
I measured the drive shaft where the coupler fits and it's between 0.998 and 0.999 (consistent with the rest of the shaft), but the ID of the coupler is from 1.003" to 1.004" which is a tolerance of .004" to .006" allowing the coupler to be installed on the shaft with no heat. This might be a stupid question but this would be unsafe to install even with the two set screws with machined dimples in the shaft? If yes would a new coupler be sufficient or do I have to buy a whole shaft assembly so they machined to fit together. Sounds like buying a split coupler may also be an option if my current one is unsafe.
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2020 at 6:50pm
Yep, no good... tolerance should measure negative with an interference fit. Pete will remind us by how much.
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