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454 vs 351

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    Posted: July-06-2012 at 9:00pm
Looking to buy a Martinique..Not to many 454 out there, is there a BIG difference in performance and top speed w/ these 2 engines??? It seems most have the Ford 351...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2012 at 10:31pm
Anyone ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 2:40am
Rrt, there aren't too many 454's out there, so the guys with knowledge will probably be a lot fewer.   It has been said on some other threads that the weight of the big block negates some of the hp increase. Not havin experience with a bb, I can't help you with a direct comparison.   One topic of discussion on them has been the rarity of reverse rotation go fast parts....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 3:08am
Thanks for reply. Just looking for a good family ski boat. I like the deep V of the Martinique, and the ability to handle rough water when needed.. I have never owned DD boats only Inboards, but I would like the best of "both" worlds. strong pulls, w/ good top end speed when I want.. so far the Martinique is all I have found to fit the bill....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 1:10pm
I owned an '87 Martinique with a 351 in the past. Very nice family boat that is great for larger bodies of water. As mentioned, most of them had 351's. If I were you, I would buy one with the 351, and put an Acme 542 prop on it. That will increase the hole shot performance a lot, and you won't have the BB appetite for fuel. Just don't expect the boat to have a great slalom wake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 1:37pm
I have an '88 Barefoot with the 454 and an Acme 542. Hole shot is super strong...I have to tell people to ease up when pulling people up because they are used to having to hammer down the throttle. Top end speed is right @ 50. The 454 adds about 200 lbs over the 351.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultrarunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 1:57pm
Propped for speed, the big block will win every time on a speed test. But it comes at the cost of fuel, which a'int cheap.

As David mentioned, you can prop the 351 to achieve good pulling power and you won't loose all that much in speed....

Been on a friends Martinique with the 351 and it does a fine job, and as also mentioned, plenty of parts...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 3:18pm
I have a small block Chrysler in my marauder which is a deep hull and I couldn't be more pleased. Easier on fuel too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2012 at 3:41pm
The only other deep V I have seen is the Southwind..For those that have one, I wonder how it compares to the Martinique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultrarunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 1:02am
Originally posted by RRT RRT wrote:

The only other deep V I have seen is the Southwind..For those that have one, I wonder how it compares to the Martinique.


RRT, a bunch of these vintage of deep-V hull boats shared the same hull. I think that is the case for the Southwind and Martinique....a resident expert will chime in.

But expect the same ride....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 1:36am
A 240 HP 351 can be pumped up to 300 HP pretty easily and for reasonable money with intake, heads, and cam if you found it to be lacking in power (others here are the experts on this, I'm just repeating what I've read here!). The 454 was rated at 330 HP but all accounts tend to indicate that number was pumped up a bit, was probably closer to 290 HP. So, the 351 is probably the better option, lighter engine with potential for more power and better fuel economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 1:54am
Don't forget the Dominique it came with both engines and is pretty much a Barefoot but overlooked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 2:03am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Don't forget the Dominique it came with both engines and is pretty much a Barefoot but overlooked.

I considered buying one last year, it had a 351. People here convinced me that the slalom wake of a BFN/Dominique just wouldn't be acceptable. The passenger seat faces forward, that seems to be the major difference in the boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 2:10am
Well I was just thinking if he's looking at a Martinique anyway that I would not over look the Dominique. The brochure shows a rear facing seat and mentions something optional.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ononewheel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 2:12am
What would you guys consider the Barefoot / Excel hull 1992-94ish?


Is that considered deep-v? Curious...


My Excel handles rough water well, especially compared to my frinds barefoot mastercraft, same era, and the stern drives.    


With a 454, propped right, and few more bits of cash, and I'd be very happy.

I've never seen a Dominique, but the Excels or Barfoots v-drives in the 92-94 era are out there in a decent price range.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultrarunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 2:30am
Originally posted by ononewheel ononewheel wrote:

What would you guys consider the Barefoot / Excel hull 1992-94ish?


Is that considered deep-v? Curious...


Yes ononewheel, the BFN's were variants of the earlier deep-V hulls that CC offered. and if you're primarily looking for a slalom boat, you don't want one of these hulls. The SN's are pretty much flat on the aft part of the boat, not so on the deep-V hulls, as you can see from the pictures on this site. As such, the SN's provide a much flatter wake due to the relative dead-rise at the transom when compared to their deep-V hull counter parts....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 2:48am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Well I was just thinking if he's looking at a Martinique anyway that I would not over look the Dominique. The brochure shows a rear facing seat and mentions something optional.

Yup, I see that now. Maybe the seat swivels?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 3:01pm
I have owned one '87 Martinique, and two Southwinds....one 20' Bowrider, and one 18' closed bow. They are all based on the same deep V hull design. The Southwind bowrider's last year was '85, and the Martinique started in '86, so it became the new offering for larger family cruisers. Very nice boats. Just a bit sluggish out of the hole which is why you should put a higher performance prop on. It will make all the difference in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-08-2012 at 4:17pm
the 454 sure will remove sluggishness, the low end torque gets the boat up and out of the hole easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ononewheel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 1:45am
Originally posted by RRT RRT wrote:

Thanks for reply. Just looking for a good family ski boat. I like the deep V of the Martinique, and the ability to handle rough water when needed.. I have never owned DD boats only Inboards, but I would like the best of "both" worlds. strong pulls, w/ good top end speed when I want.. so far the Martinique is all I have found to fit the bill....



I'm saying DD or V-drive. They are both inboards anyway.

Lots of room in a v-drive I think.     If the Martinique is the only thing you find that fits the bill, your budget is too small, you have not looked at many boats, or I don't know what really.


Clarify your budget, because that is where it all starts anyway.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 7:13pm
I'd be much more concerned with the overall condition of the boat. If it's straight and also has a 454, that's just a bonus. Not sure i'd set my sights specifically on a martinique, but if a clean one comes up, take a look at it. Older supra's are similar, and are supposed to have cleaner wakes, if that's what you're after. But any of them (cc's included of that vintage) will have skeletons in the closet. Meaning stringer issues. Someone else on this forum did a stringer job on an older supra, and it was not for the faint-hearted. A martinique stringer job would be similarly unpleasant. 93+ sport nautiques are 100% composite and are coming down in price. That would be my target if i was currently looking for a family friendly do it all DD boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by daddyo daddyo wrote:

I'd be much more concerned with the overall condition of the boat. If it's straight and also has a 454, that's just a bonus. Not sure i'd set my sights specifically on a martinique, but if a clean one comes up, take a look at it. Older supra's are similar, and are supposed to have cleaner wakes, if that's what you're after. But any of them (cc's included of that vintage) will have skeletons in the closet. Meaning stringer issues. Someone else on this forum did a stringer job on an older supra, and it was not for the faint-hearted. A martinique stringer job would be similarly unpleasant. 93+ sport nautiques are 100% composite and are coming down in price. That would be my target if i was currently looking for a family friendly do it all DD boat.

I have to agree with you on that point, but depends on which is more important to him, rough water capability or ski/board capability. In one of his first posts above he mentions he'd like "the ability to handle rough water when needed". I've never ridden in a Martinique or Southwind, but can guess how they ride. I just had my '98 Sport in some pretty rough conditions and while I never questioned the seaworthyness of the boat, it ran through it nicely with the bow kept high at maybe 15-18 mph, at anything except running into or following the waves it was very wet, lots of spray and bow steer. I think the Marty/South high freeboard would be a much better bet in those conditions. But, the Sport would be a much better all around watersport boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by 63 Skier 63 Skier wrote:

Originally posted by daddyo daddyo wrote:

I'd be much more concerned with the overall condition of the boat. If it's straight and also has a 454, that's just a bonus. Not sure i'd set my sights specifically on a martinique, but if a clean one comes up, take a look at it. Older supra's are similar, and are supposed to have cleaner wakes, if that's what you're after. But any of them (cc's included of that vintage) will have skeletons in the closet. Meaning stringer issues. Someone else on this forum did a stringer job on an older supra, and it was not for the faint-hearted. A martinique stringer job would be similarly unpleasant. 93+ sport nautiques are 100% composite and are coming down in price. That would be my target if i was currently looking for a family friendly do it all DD boat.

I have to agree with you on that point, but depends on which is more important to him, rough water capability or ski/board capability. In one of his first posts above he mentions he'd like "the ability to handle rough water when needed". I've never ridden in a Martinique or Southwind, but can guess how they ride. I just had my '98 Sport in some pretty rough conditions and while I never questioned the seaworthyness of the boat, it ran through it nicely with the bow kept high at maybe 15-18 mph, at anything except running into or following the waves it was very wet, lots of spray and bow steer. I think the Marty/South high freeboard would be a much better bet in those conditions. But, the Sport would be a much better all around watersport boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RRT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 9:39pm
Thats what I am looking for Family friendly do it all boat. I will take a look at some sport nautiques. Like stated before Just would like the boat to have the ability to handle rough water when needed, and not drown us in the process!..We mainly ski and tube, but we are learning how to wake board. all just for fun. I do not need to have the perfect wake. I appreciate some of the advice here I will look at some of the boats mentioned....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ultrarunner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2012 at 11:31pm
RRT, there is no question the Sport's are great all-around boats ideally suited for a day on the water with the kiddies, and the friends they will ultimately bring. Tons of storage and options that make it a good wake-board boat, etc...The closed-bow boats do NOT have that practicality and never will.

Open bow or closed boat however, these are NOT rough-water boats, and while sure, you can snow plow back through the chop to get back home, that's a bandaid, and you will get wet and be very unhappy. Hard on the boat too!

Martinique's have literally TWICE the freeboard of the SN's and Sports, and handle the rough water plenty fine. And with that freeboard, they are just great for the smaller kids.

I have a Sport, with the wakeboard options, and I love the boat and use it in mostly protected bay waters, and I primarily slalom with the boat. However, if I wanted to more regularly boat out in Lake Ontario and still have a water-sport boat, I'd definitely look at a later-model Martinique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2012 at 1:25pm
My 3 year old twins can't see over the side of our martinique when they're in the boat, so yeah, it's got some freeboard. It's a tank, and drives a bit like one too. We call it "the beast".
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