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71 Martinique Alternator issues

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    Posted: August-08-2012 at 10:40pm
I have recently installed a new motor into my 71 Martinique. It's a Chrysler LM318 reverse rotation. After my second test run, I found that the alternator was not charging. I went through all of the normal tests. I ordered and received and installed the replacement. My problem is how to wire the darn thing. My old alternator had a bat terminal and another terminal that hooked to brushes that were in a housing on the back of the alternator. The wire hooked to the brushes came from the post terminal of the vr-1001 voltage regulator. The new alternator, Sierra model 18-5954 has only a bat terminal. Therein lies my confusion. Where does the second wire go? The bat term is obvious. I have searched the forums and can't figure it out. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. I will upload a picture of the beast soon. This boat has been in my family since 1978. The interior is all original (except for the floor and carpet). The exterior is in excellent condition. Lots of tlc for this one over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2012 at 8:23am
Mike,
It sounds like the Sierra is a "one wire". That's all that should be needed. It's internally regulated so you don't need the old regulator. No instuctions with the new alternator?

What "normal" tests did you do to check out the old alternator? Did you look into just replacing the full wave diode bridge? Was the voltage regulator feeding the field? BTW, you didn't by chance disconnect the battery with the engine running? This is an old "back yard test" that can in most cases damage the regulator a well as blow the diodes in the bridge.

Personally, I would have fixed the original alternator keeping the engine as original as possible!!


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2012 at 12:45pm
There was no paper work with the new alt. I bobught it from a marne store in Fl. I read a old of posts about how to test my alt. I checked for voltage into and out of. the voltage regula tor . No voltage on either side. Had no voltage out of alt. Checked all with fluke vom . There are two devices listed as voltage regulator. the first is an echoing vr1001 . The second is a small silver device that looks like a relay. Which gets eliminated? Any wiring diagrams available? Thanks for any and all advice .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 89Martinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2012 at 1:34pm
most alts. need a activation wire but it looks to be that the new alt you ordered is a very nice and simple 1 wire job.
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1992 Supra Comp-TS6M PCM 351w HO Pro Boss Pro-Tec Ignition - Full Composite (no wood stingers!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2012 at 1:39pm
Mike,
A couple pictures would be great but, take a look in the reference section at the Chrysler engine manual. There's some good pictures in it. Yes, on an externally regulater alternator, the field needs to get excited before it will output. It sounds like you had a regulator or cut out relay problem and not a problem with the alternator. Both the cut out relay and regulator are explained in the manual.


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77 Tique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2012 at 4:57pm
I installed the new alternator and finally got out on the water. The ampmeter showed a charge all the time. Turning on and off accessories would make the needle move. Everything looked normal. The alternator was very hot to the touch when I trailered the boat. All other parts of the motor were cool. Not sure why the alt. was so hot. I took the belt off and turned it by hand. When I turned it in the direction of the motor (reverse)it made a rattling noise. Turned the opposite way it is smooth. Are alternators direction sensitive? If so, maybe it is the wrong alt. I am going to call the supplier in the morning. Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2012 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by 71CCMartinique 71CCMartinique wrote:

   Are alternators direction sensitive? If so, maybe it is the wrong alt.

No, an alternator produces ALTERNATING current!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-23-2012 at 12:12am
The brushes have worn in & now have a draft to them. Turning in reverse make them want to grab.

The alt being very hot does not seem right though - you may want to thermoscan it so you have a # when you call the no-help desk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-25-2012 at 12:23am
I spoke with the rep from West marine. He is sending out a new alt. He was also concerned with the temperature. Didn't have my vom on my test run. I am going to run it again and check the output volts. No other reason than curiosity. I had my laser thermo in the truck. I didn't think to check temp with it. All I know is it was real hot. I've never felt one get that hot. More info later in the weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2012 at 12:09am
I put the boat in this afternoon. It ran great. I went for a ski ride and spent about a total of an hour running. The alternator temp after trailering was 185 degrees. Other than temp, it seems normal. No vom again today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2012 at 10:43am
Mike,
With the new one wire alternator, did you take the regulator and cut out relay out of the wiring circuit.

I hate to see you going non original. Did you ever test the old alternator/regular/cut out relay or take them in for testing? What else have you done to the boat?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2012 at 11:19am
Mike n- You might want to run it without doghouse to see if the heat is coming from the alt itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2012 at 11:43pm
I still have the original alt. I plan to have it rebuilt. The bearings are bad and it failed a load test. I wanted to wait until off season to have it rebuilt. I thought the replacement would be simple. I removed the voltage reg and left the cut out relay in. I have kept the original wiring in tact to make it easy to put the original alt back in. The rest of the boat is original exept for the swim platform and the step pads. It has been in my family for 35 years. I got it after the engine block cracked. Other than normal maint or wear item replacement, this is the first it has been any trouble. I put most of the original 786 hours on the boat. If I had a wiring diagram or some type of rewire guide I don't think it would be a problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-26-2012 at 11:45pm
Mike,
Did you leave the cut out relay wired in the circuit?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:38am
I took out the voltage regulator and left the cut out relay in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2012 at 9:28am
Originally posted by 71CCMartinique 71CCMartinique wrote:

and left the cut out relay in.

Did someone advise you to wire up the alternator this way? It's not typical for a one wire alternator.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2012 at 11:27pm
I read that the cut out relay was to disconnect the alt from the battery to prevent possible discharge. I ran the wire from the alt to the alt out term on the relay. I have looked for a wiring diagram and can't seem to track one down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2012 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by 71CCMartinique 71CCMartinique wrote:

I have looked for a wiring diagram and can't seem to track one down.

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Mike,
take a look in the reference section at the Chrysler engine manual..

IN THE REFERENCE SECTION!!
Didn't you even look??????


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2012 at 6:34pm
I looked in the reference section and downloaded both Chrysler manuals. I did this before I posted this problem. The wiring diagram in the link provided is for the old alternator. I need a diagram for the new one. I know how to wire the old one. I found this diagram at a mopar site. Any comments?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2012 at 8:49pm
I would bypass the ammeter in the dash & just run the output of the alternator to the starter relay. Then get a voltmeter for the dash. Originality is fine, but there also is technology progress to consider.

Sounds like the cutout relay is extra baggage you don't need.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-01-2012 at 9:39pm
All the loads should be on the load side of the ammeter.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 71CCMartinique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2012 at 12:56pm
I finally got the replacement alternator installed. It actually came with a wiring diagram! I removed the cut out relay and rewired as shown on the diagram. I tested the boat on the trailer (rain from Isaac). Everything is good to go. Alt shows charge for a short time after start and then returns to just above 0. It adjusts as loads are added. Thank you all for your help. This is a great forum. I believe this matter is solved!
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