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High output coil

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jefmar View Drop Down
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    Posted: December-19-2005 at 2:10pm
I need a coil for an '89 Ski Nautique. My father is a hot rod type and suggested that I upgrade to a high output coil and and high voltage spark plug wires. Does anyone have input? Could it affect marine compatibility??
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Bradley950 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bradley950 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2005 at 3:30pm
The hotter the better!! Your engine will run cleaner and more efficiently. Is it electronic ignition or is it points? Let me know. Brad
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882001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 882001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2005 at 4:01pm
i did a high perf coil. i wouldnt do it with points. thats what the resistor does is give you less spark
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81nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 5:48am
Can someone make a recommendation for what high performance coil to buy? Thanks
You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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882001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 882001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 1:59pm
epoxy not oil filled. www.vintageperformance.com is where i got mine.
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captan1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captan1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 2:08pm
After upgrading to a Mallory Unilite distributor I found myself learning about ballast resistors, if I'm remembering right you can use any Hi-performance coil for points, some coils say electronic ignition and some say points coil, it's all about the internal resistance of the coil. I think all you need is to equal around 3.0 or more ohms for points, ballast resistor/coil-internal resistance.

For my Unilite it's at least 1.5 ohms, the Blaster 2 coil I use has .7 internal resistance so I use a .8 ohm ballast resistor to give about 1.5 ohms for the coil to see which the Unilite module is connected to. I think Pertronix needs to see 1.5 or more ohms too.

MSD Blaster, mallory, they all advertise about 45,000 volts, just add up the internal resistance of the coil and have a ballast resistor value to equal 3 ohms or a little more.
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jefmar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 3:04pm
Thank you for your responses.

Brad - I running a converted original Pertronix distributer with electronic ignition conversion kit (GLM Part number 72540) in a '89 Natique with PCM Ford 351.

882001 - Did you use the
45,000 V Flame-Thrower II Coil?? Did you upgrade other parts?

captan1 - Are you running points? I think that my ballast resister was bypassed with the conversion.
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882001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 882001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 3:45pm
yeah thats the one. yes i did the electronic conversion.highly recomend it. but im thinking 89 doesnt have points. right?
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captan1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captan1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 5:10pm
I would think the Pertronix coil is compatible maybe without a ballast resistor, to match their conversion units, probably 1.5 to 2.0 ohms so that would feed the required amperage to the coil then to the pickup.

I have a Pertronix in the original Prestolite distributor and I have in the boat now a Mallory I got off ebay, Unilite.

Both Pertronix and Mallory Unilite require at least 1.5 ohms resistance coil/ and if needed ballast resistor to lower the current to the coil/electronic ign., so that's where I needed the ballast to reduce the current to the coil ( blaster II has .07 and my ballast has .08 to make 1.5 to the coil.

It's all to prevent the electronic ignition from getting to much current being it's connected to the coil.

I wouldn't run points, it's to easy to convert to electronic.

You should also run a + 12v feed to the coil and bypass the ballast resistor from the starter solenoid so you get a full 12 volts during starting, then once the starter is disengaged the reduced 12 v for running comes from the ballast feed.

I just re-wired my whole boat from dash to engine to fuel tank, that was a finger wearing out, wire twisting job but it's nice to know whats going on.
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Bradley950 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bradley950 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 5:13pm
I run a D.U.I. set up it works great, and the clear cap looks pretty cool.   http://www.performancedistributors.com/
Cheak them out!!             Brad
Brad Miller
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captan1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 5:21pm
Quit it, I don't need another backup distributor, does DUI make the drive gear for reverse rotation engines? I've probably got that much invested in the two distributors I have, I'd like to have one of those babies.
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jefmar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 6:45pm
882001 - assuming that the previous two owners didn't swap points for electronic, my '89 originally had points. Did you have do do any ohm/ballast resister stuff similar to captan1?

captan1 - This ohm stuff is a little tough to digest. But I'm getting that the resistance of the coil must match the conversion kit.. And I might need to add a ballast resister to compensate for mismatched coil/conversion kit resistance.. Is that correct??

Brad - Great link.. A very nice looking and simple product.
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jefmar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 7:09pm
Thanks again for your responses.

Correction:
I have a converted original Prestolite distributer with conversion kit (GLM Part number 72540).
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captan1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captan1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-22-2005 at 7:57pm
Check this out.
I took this from the pertronix web site, this is what kind of educated me on the whole amperage requirement...

What type of coil can I use with the Ignitor™? How do I check my coils resistance? (12V negative ground only)

To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.
Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.
The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ? ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle. Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.
Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.
Four cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Six and eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8.5 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.
Example Voltage 12
Resistance 1.5
12 / 1.5 = 8
Total amperage 8

Confusing as hell, read it about 10 times and it can be followed.

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882001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 882001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2005 at 6:14am
i didnt do any of that. i dont even really understand that. so the answer would be NO. i went with the coil that came with the kit. yours is the same as mine.
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Bradley950 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bradley950 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-27-2005 at 2:48pm
I had to buy a reverse gear for the D.U.I.. I bought it from Jegs. It was not hard to change or set up my D.U.I. .   Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-28-2005 at 9:54pm
Thanks all for your help. I have been trying GLM to get their recommendation too. I will let you know how I come out. Have a great New Year.

Jeff
1989
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-29-2005 at 6:28am
in the conversion kit it should have had instructions on how to test the voltage simular to what capt1 posted. If you did not follow them then you are going to shorten the life of the electronics and/or coil no mater what coil, ballast resistor, conv kit you use. It all boils down to system resistance (sp) and voltage. The ballast resistor is to protect the electronics or points which ever the case maybe. The resistance of the coil windings is what determinds the output voltage of the coil not the voltage going to it, thats why they will list what the coil resistance should be for the system and you should follow the manufactures specification because almost every model and brand are different. Most conversion kits say you can bypass the ballast resistor IF THE RESTISTANCE READS X ohms if not then you have to add a ballast resistor or change the coils resistance so that you have X ohms of resistance.

So long story short read the instructions and if you don't understand them then read then again and again and again until you do or find someone that does understand the testing procedure. Because there is one major difference between a point dist. and a electronic dist.

A motor with a point distributor will let you know when it is about to go out and you can limp back to the dock. An electronic dist will just quit in a snap of the fingers and you'll have to be towed backed so read the instructions and follow them or have a tow boat on standby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jefmar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-30-2005 at 6:35pm
79Nautique - thank you for your input. Unfortunately the local Nautique dealer that installed the conversion kit did not provide the instructions. I would like to think that the dealer installed it correctly but they failed to diagnose the problem that the boat had when I brought it in.   It had a hard start when warm and high idle problem. The dealer diagnosed bad points and sold me on the electronic ignition conversion kit. I got it back with the same hard start when warm problem and an irregular idle. The dealer then claimed I needed a carb rebuild. I was not convinced decided to fix it myself. Since then I diagnosed and repaired a vacuum leak (PCV valve hose connection), bad timing and completed a complete tune up. I got a little impatient about the fancy coil and replaced the original with a factory replacement type from the local marine parts store. The boat runs great now and I have not touched the carb except the idle. I will continue with improvements; it will be great having a running engine to start from.

Hopefully I can get the GLM/Pertronix conversion kit instructions and double check the dealer installation. I called GLM; they told me to call Pertronix. I would call the dealer but they have been closed for the holidays. It looks like the dealer did bypass the ballast resister because the conversion kit is wired directly to the coil. I'm regretting letting the dealer install the kit; it seems like it is more hassle to deal with compatibility issues compared to gapping a new set of points.

A different question - about the timing.. I bought a service manual from skidim; it lists two timing specs; one at 10 degrees for screw retained Prestolite Distributor at 600 RPM; the second is 6 degrees at 600 RPM. I'm running at 9 degrees and it runs great. Does that sound like a good setting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-30-2005 at 7:43pm
You should be ok with the timing where it's at, the more timing the better, to an extent that is without creating a ping under load or hard accelleration. Flip the motor box up and take it for a spin and open her up all of the way from a dead stop or idle and listen for a ping/spark knock. If you hear one then back down the time a little.
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