Seat bottom material or "What's it made of?" |
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Posted: February-08-2013 at 3:53pm |
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What material is the white hard "plastic-foam" looking material that is the base or seat-bottom for the seats? I am trying to figure out best practices for repair. Plastic weld or fiberglass or both to avoid have to replace entire piece. Is this some from of light-weight PVC sheet? Does not seem very dense, hence the break.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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HDPE, at least for my driver seat. I don't think any glue will stick to it.
Post a picture, maybe you have something else. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Correct that HDPE can't be glued (the reason glue containers are made with it!) but, it can be welded. However, I sure wouldn't spend the time to weld. Just replace the whole piece. |
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mark c
Gold Member Joined: May-09-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Theres some stuff called pro poly thats made by innerduct for glueing HDPE conduits and couplings together, that will tear the couplings apart before the glue fails. Don't know if it would be acceptable for gluing a seat back together or not, but its one of the only adhesives that will glue HPDE to HPDE. Short of that you need to plastic weld it together using HPDE rods.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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I don't think cc used hdpe on seat bases. Maybe the rotomolded drivers seat shell (mid 80's forward) but not the bases. I have it on good authority that composite seat bases are xpvc.
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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I agree up to now, but TAP plastics poly-weld adhesive will repair or even build HDPE pieces together. You can watch one of their many informative videos on their web site.
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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"...Maybe the rotomolded drivers seat shell (mid 80's forward) but not the bases. I have it on good authority that composite seat bases are xpvc."
This on my 1999 SNOB, assumed all CC seats were same after wood was eliminated. Sorry the X stands for? Thank you for the reply |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Yes that is my understanding (all seat bases have been xpvc since wood was eliminated).
X = expanded |
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bhectus
Platinum Member Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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Tim, even the black seat bases in the 80's style deluxe interior SN's? (love seat and stern seat bases). I also thought they were HDPE.
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Sorry, didn't pickup about bases vs seat bottoms.
I was referring to the driver seat bottom, which is a thick amber plastic on my boat. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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For clarification. It is the white plastic sheet material that the seat vinyl is stapled to. Hence the "seat bottom" reference. From earlier posts seems it is expanded polyvinyl chloride or high density polyethylene. I am thinking the XPVC. Both of which can be repaired by plastic welding with the proper rod material and from what I have learned from TAP plastics HDPE can be glued with their poly-weld adhesive after the edges are properly heated with a propane torch. They have many great videos on their website to show HDPE repair and others.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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The seat "base" is what the foam sits on and the vinyl is stapled to. CC went to composite in '93. Ive been told that its been XPVC ever since. No idea what the rotomolded driver's bucket is made out of, nor the plastic seat frames used on late delux 2001's (or 90+ NWZ rear seats for that matter). Calling those piece "bases" is probably misleading- frame is probably a better term. They did take the place of the aluminum frames used previously, after all.
Chris, now Im confused even more- what piece of your driver's seat is made of thick amber plastic? The base? The rotomolded bucket? The pedestal? The base should be plywood (as was my '90), and the pedestal is gelcoated fiberglass. If your base is plastic, then my bet is that its not original. |
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Would 3M 5200 silicon do the repair?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kevin, 5200 is a moisture cure polyurethane!! |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Tim - I would post a picture of it but the boat is stored 50 miles away.
On mine, you can pull up the front of the driver bottom cushion (the skin is snapped at the rear) & the horizontal support underneath is what I guess to be HDPE. All my other seat bottoms have plywood in them that the skins are stapled to. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13515 |
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It's 2013. Pics would really help. The seat "base" threads are always a mess.
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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No clue what they used but I posted this a few years ago and never got a good answer. From our 96 SNOB's observer seat bottom. It was original for sure since it had all the trimmings like the rest of our seat bottoms.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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Chris, Ive been gathering information as of late (mostly from Christine's) about composite seat bases for the '80. Turns out CC has used XPVC (Sintra Board is the specific brand) since they went composite in '93. There are some tricks to working with it, but Im determined to not use ply!
Im sure its the same stuff they used on the trunk floor in the Crush. We have a piece or 2 thats shattered pretty good (held together by the carpet)... maybe from running a bit of weight back there? It sure doesnt look repairable- at least I wouldnt expect it to hold any weight afterwards. For boards that dont need to hold staples, coosa is probably a better choice. Otherwise, thicknesses should be chosen carefully and strategically placed reinforcements should be added, especially for wider spans. |
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audiodude
Senior Member Joined: November-19-2012 Location: Badin Lake Status: Offline Points: 308 |
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I used polyurethane sheeting to replace some of my plywood seat bottoms. Bought it at HD it is only 1/4 inch so I doubled it up. It was recommended by the guy who did my upholstery who swears by it. Haven't put the seats in the boat yet so I will have to see how it holds up.
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2000 Ski Nautique 1989 Correct Craft 2001
In the words of Milton Berle: "You can lead a man to Congress but you can't make him think" |
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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FYI: I am pretty sure after all the input here and my own research, the material is in fact expanded pvc sheet. About .50 inch thick. I found one or two suppliers online that will sell special cuts so you do not have to buy an entire sheet. Interstate Plastics having most any type of synthetic sheet/material made.
However, I ended up dismantling observer's seat bottom and repairing the cracked xpvc-sheet on both sides with "Aero Marine" two-part epoxy resin I have used their epoxy many times repairing boats and other items. If you have any rotten wood you can restore the rot with their resin and wood-dust as a thickener. Old or new wood can be "sealed" with their resin thinned with no more than 10%, by weight or volume, acetone then saturate wood with the mixture and it will encapsulate the wood fibers (penetrating resin) to prevent future rot. On this job I added a thickener (cabosil)to part-1, to make a paste then added hardener (part-2)and "glued" the two edges together, then used the regular two part resin & fiberglass cloth on both sides (one side at a time)to cover the break. Once cured it was much stronger than original sheet. If it breaks again it will be in another area. Plastic welding was also an option but cost for buying the welding-tool and repair material would have exceed buying an entire new piece of XPVC or other synthetic sheet in the size I needed. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Monty, I've been around wood boats as well as wood stringered boats for plenty of years and feel your recommendation of wood rot repair is nothing more that a temporary fix. In fact, I would call it more of a "back yard" fix. Epoxy saturating rot may fix that area but then the wood next to the repair will go. Plus, even faster since now the moisture is sealed in!!!! I've seen it plenty of times. In fact, we even have a member (I will not mention his name) that can contest to the issue. Have you ever tested the moisture content of the surrounding wood? I certainly hope you don't make this type of repair "professionally". |
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TallTex
Groupie Joined: August-27-2012 Location: Austin Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Hi, thanks for the reply but your reply goes beyond the subject post.
1. I recommend "Aero Marine" products, I have plenty of experience repair to boats and other things and have found nothing better to work with. Their epoxy resin is non-blushing and Low VOC. That is all I was saying. 2. You are making presumptions/assumptions that go beyond what I stated in my post. It merely stated Aero Marine products if used properly are excellent, including their use for repairs to wood-rot. Nothing was stated on "best practices" or "how to" properly repair wood rot in a boat. This depends on a case by case basis and depends on exactly what it is you are trying to repair. 3. I was not speaking to repair of wood rot in my post. Regards, Monty |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Sorry as I must have misread your post.
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