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If one Flyhigh is good, two is better!

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    Posted: March-31-2013 at 1:19am
No tower needed.

Today I set up and tested my Double Stack Super Flyhigh.

I got a 2nd Stainless steel Flyhigh and pulled the cables out, put it on the pylon then put the 2nd Flyhigh on top of it then let out and ran the cables to the front bow strap like normal and viola Super Flyhigh! It's 11.5 feet off my floor. Sets up, takes down in same time as it takes to set up a pylon extension. Just have to run a leader because you can't climb it.

Worked like a charm. Happened to have a 250lb footer and after I skied it at my buckfifty we had him go and torture test it, it did flex a bit but nothing crazy, Willie skied some wakes with it at 45, the wake is super nice.

I'll get some pics and vids this week maybe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 1:26am
I often wondered why that would not be a suitable replacement. Looking forward to pics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 2:56am
Any side to side pull?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 4:20am
The only time I really watched it was with the 250lb guy on it and during his deepwater it flexed as he went over the wake cheeking hard to get outside once he was up it relaxed and as he did 2 foot wakes at 45 it looked like it would move back and forth about 2-3 inches but nothing that you can feel while skiing.

It's not ideal but it works and looks OK. and comes right down easily.

I set it up following a friend's pattern where he used one of BI's alum flyhighs and he had to cut off the cables(i just slid them out of the SS flyhigh and can put it back together no harm) then he put the ss on top.

I did SS on SS and it looks more uniform and I did adjust the cables out so it looks exactly like it would on just one. There is a mid tow point and a low. It's a cleaner look I think. I'll get em posted soon this one I posted a while ago is Jerry Kanawyer's being used at a competition.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 10:54am
Looks great! You could also add a jib!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 12:06pm
Andy,
I have to ask why so high? Is the friend of your's competing pro? I didn't realize pro's needed that much "crutch"?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harddock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 12:50pm
The barefooters put a fly high on a tower so there must be something to pulling from that high up. My kids discovered the slalom course and a standard pylon is all we use. Fly high sits in the garage unless we have wakeboard guests.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 3:30pm
Why do pro wakeboarders "need" a tower? Is it a crutch for them too?
I guess it must be.

Yes, pro barefooters are setting world records on the Super Fly High. Yes, it is approved for International competition. Years ago!

Here is what you will see at a United States barefoot tournament these days. So you can either ski on the 7 ft or the low pole or the SFH. It's your choice. Most competitors want any edge they can get. So guess where everybody is hooking their ropes.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 4:04pm
More float Pete, you should try one with the tube.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by TX Foilhead TX Foilhead wrote:

More float Pete, you should try one with the tube.


Don,
As soon as the ice is off the lake, I'll be sure to try it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 5:37pm
Here's the rule:

D) Points of Attachment. Towboats shall be equipped with towing attachment points on the
centerline of the towboat with a minimum of two heights.
Text0: 1) Mandatory Lower Attachment Point. When the towboat is standing still with no
occupants aboard, the lower attachment point shall be a minimum of 65 cm and a
maximum of 1.2m.
Text0: 2) Mandatory Middle Attachment Point. When the towboat is standing still with no
occupants aboard, the middle attachment point shall be a minimum of 2.0m and the
maximum of 2.25m above the water.
Text0: 3) Optional High Attachment Point. When the towboat is standing still with no occupants
aboard, an optional attachment point shall be permitted to be located approximately 4.0m
above the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 6:44pm
I have already had a tower and SFH on my competition barefoot towboat, I did not like the tower so this Double Stack lets me fully outfit my competition barefoot towboat without a tower allowing for the low, med, and high tow points. And it all comes right down and stores away easily.

Alot of different "redneck" superflyhighs have been seen and I wanted to do it with off the shelf parts without altering them or the boat permanently in any way.

This is a possible solution for others. It cost me $360 to get high. Everybody else pays $3000.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SN206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 7:33pm
For those considering the SFH, it adds weight and makes a cumbersome tower fold even more if you have to for storage. I like the non constricting/obstucting double pole idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-31-2013 at 9:09pm
Consider this: When the SFH was being considered one of the big complaints was cost, 1k for a tower extension(SFH) and you needed a tower that it could mount to 2 to 3k more.

If anyone had taken the time to simply figure out that you could take a 2nd Flyhigh and stack them up (It's just too simple!) how many towers and SFH's would have been sold? yes, some would have, and the tower with the SFH IS an AWESOME set up, very stout. But alot of people would be double stacked and they will be.

You can pick up used Flyhighs for cheap, all you need are the poles if you have a flyhigh already.
I should note that this is all to fit a 2.5 inch pylon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turningpoint84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 2:26pm
April Fools?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 2:40pm
The double stack has been around, nothing new. A 1 piece custom pylon extension might even be cheaper. Tournament skiers have fallen into the trap of "needing" the ridiculously high pull now since the competition is likely using it. Besides "records" it really doesn't matter. Ski better than everyone else, no matter what the conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 4:14pm
Double stack has been around? Really? where? who? when?

Nobody foots on the low pole anymore and nothing is stopping them. Why? perception? maybe.

Skiing better than everyone else will always be the way to win.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:


Nobody foots on the low pole anymore and nothing is stopping them. Why? perception? maybe.

I believe his point was that of course everyone is going to use the higher tow point, if given the choice. It makes everything easier! No one chooses the low pole in competition because it puts them at a disadvantage.

Are we seeing a new breed of tricks that are being driven by the higher tow point? (I have no idea). I can certainly see the higher tow point being useful as a training tool, or fun to goof around with... seems like its almost cheating to be able to use it in competition though. Im surprised its become the standard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:



Skiing better than everyone else will always be the way to win.



One of those kind of fundamental ideas. Reminds of when I used to follow Nascar a little closer than I do now. The commentator asks the driver what is the most important consideration in today's race. Typical answer: "Oh, in this race, that would be track position" In other words, being in first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 11:10pm
As a matter of fact it has hatched a new breed of tricks. I think that between 3 and 5 new tricks were just invented and submitted and assigned point values which were just increased due to the difficulty(which they under-estimated). They are variations of the sideslide and associated with ADV. The sideslide actually has been done for years, there are pictures of Scarpa in the Second edition of John Gillette's Barefooting that shows Scarpa sidesliding on a level boom directly and off a 5ft handle. It was never a recognized trick for whatever reason(stubborness?)

Have any of you barefooted on the 4M pole? I'm just curious.

The comments kinda indicate: NO.

"Everything" is not easier. Some things are easier. (A rookie learning longline backdeeps is probably benefited the most by it)

All I will say is that if you can't do it on the 7ft or the 3ft you are not going to just go do it on the SFH. It's not THAT much "easier" except in the imagination (but perception becomes reality so I'm dying to see what you guys can do on one! since it's so easy! It's cheating! Aren't you curious what tricks you will suddenly be able to do!?)

After extensive footing on a tower(7ft) and a SFH (~14ft) and the low pole(3ft)---

I'll just say it's a lot more fun but it isn't much easier if you don't know what you are doing.

I won't be going back to a 3 foot pylon any time soon though either.

As far as it being cheating it's available to everyone to use so it can't possibly be cheating, playing field is level.

If you can't do them now you are not going to get on a SFH and do anything new without learning it the old fashioned way- skiing on your feet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 11:26pm
If the super tall pylon doesn't provide the same effect as a high boom when skiing on the 5', then you can disregard my comments.

I'm sure it makes everything easier just like the 8' pylons are easier than the low pole. I wouldn't turn down a pull! I do find it interesting that these 12' poles are becoming the 'new normal' in competition, that's all. Seems like it would be more of a training aid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-01-2013 at 11:58pm
I used to cosider booms training aids, and advanced footers shouldnt be using them routinely, only to learn a new trick and then immediately move the trick to long line. I thought those who used booms just to perform were taking the easy way out. I have very much changed my line of thinking tho. Traditional 3 event barefooting is great and should stick around, but that is not to say that a different branch of the sport can not evolve. I think advance level footing off a boom (and SFH) is just an evolution of the sport. It brings the skier to the audience (those in the boat) plus allows much better video opportunity. Plus (and especially in concert with a SFH) opens a whole new spectrum of tricks: various boat starts, hand stands (or whatever they are called) and advanced ADV tricks off the SFH. I have to say that the thrill wore off watching the tricks evolve, but then one day I was watching an Andre video and he did a dolphin start to back and an ADV to back and I thought, well that is pretty impressive. I am just making a case here for Andy's arguement that using a boom (and a SFH) has allowed the sport, or at least the freestyle aspect of it, the aspect that seems to get the most attention these days) to evolve and grow and if long line off a SFH is an extension of that growth into conventional long line trick runs, why not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 12:06am
What effect are you talking about?
Are you saying having a high boom is making everything easier?
try a tumbleturn on a high boom and tell me how easy it was compared to a lower pull.

A high boom is no good for a whole bunch of tricks. It is to learn sideslides mostly.

The high pole is here to stay.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 12:13am
William Farrell won't do turns on the boom because they are too hard there, it's easier longline. Whaddya think of that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 12:42am
I guess it's kind of funny that I have moved the rope down to the low pole just for kicks and I can still do everything on the longline that I can do with an elevated towpoint so perhaps it is all perception. It just feels awkward when you get used to a higher pull and then go low. And for people used to a low pull a high one feels awkward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 1:02am
At least now I can cruise around without a tower or anything on my boat if I want to.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 1:21am
The biggest mistake a barefooter can make is to think he has graduated from the boom. That will be the end of learning anything new.

I'm aware of some peoples attitudes about "boom skiers" or as HW puts it "dangling from a boom" and my opinion on that is you have to learn somewhere, somehow, some pretty impossible barefoot tricks get learned dangling from a boom, I'm living proof, learning the sideslide at 48 years old dangling from a boom and now I am probably the only 51 year old doing a longline sideslide in the country...maybe the worLD muhhahahaha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 10:56am
It all comes down to the advancement of the sport......and I am all for that. I personally can't wait to get me some piece of a SFH!!!!!    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 11:34am
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

What effect are you talking about?
Are you saying having a high boom is making everything easier?
try a tumbleturn on a high boom and tell me how easy it was compared to a lower pull.

A high boom is no good for a whole bunch of tricks. It is to learn sideslides mostly.

Is that a trick question? Does the higher pull not make the vast majority of tricks easier by taking pressure off the feet? Maybe Im totally missing something. Ive never used an extremely high boom, but have played with "reasonable" angles plenty. I find tumbles on a moderately angled boom much easier than the long line- long line low pole being the toughest. Of course, tricks where the more extreme line angle fight you are easier with a lower attachment point (toe holds, etc). Theres a youtube video of Andre's brother using a comically high boom... to the point where flips look almost easy. Thats the extreme end of the spectrum we're talking about, I think.

I dont think anyone is attacking you, but you seem to be taking the comments a little personally? I think the higher pulls are great training tools and fun to play around with- it sure makes the freestyle videos on youtube more fun to watch! Im all for the lack of a tower on a boat as well, so kudos there. I just find it interesting that the 12' attachment points are becoming the standard for conventional tournaments. It seems the natural progression of things would have you learning tricks on the boom, then graduating to the SFH, then graduating to the FH (or even low pole), with each step being incrementally more difficult. Clearly the higher tow point isnt going to make an average footer a great one (heck, look at me ).

Anyone know whether the SFH's are allowed in barefoot racing? Seems like that would provide a pretty big competitive advantage. We notice a big difference in how far/long we can foot just going from the low tow point to the FH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-02-2013 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by GlassSeeker GlassSeeker wrote:

What effect are you talking about?
Are you saying having a high boom is making everything easier?
try a tumbleturn on a high boom and tell me how easy it was compared to a lower pull.

A high boom is no good for a whole bunch of tricks. It is to learn sideslides mostly.

The high pole is here to stay.




They aren't the most attrative addition to a ski boat. Has the optimum height been realized yet?

I think booms and FHs are great as I've watched my kids make fairly quick progress from not knowing how to barefoot at all to being comfortable on the boom to long line.
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