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1965 Mustang Fuel Additive Help!!

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    Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:09am
Hey everyone, newbie here. Just picked up an awesome 1965 with a 289 that the previous owner says was bored out to a 302. I am NOT a mechanic by any stretch. I can change plaugs/wires/cap/coil etc, and do an oil change. But when it comes to diagnostics I am lost. It starts great runs great at lower speeds, say in the 20s. After about 2500 rpms if I hit try to punch it wide open, it starts to fight me, bogging down and if I let up on the throttle a bit, she will run fine. The carb seems super clean.

Question, is there a fuel filter on here? If there is, it must be back by the gas tank because I see none following the fuel line to the motor. Would suck top have to remove the rear seat to get to the tank. Really sounds like a fuel issue. Maybe the 1/2 tank of gas that was in there when I bought it has been sitting for a long time. The old man had only been taking it out now and then to run on his driveway.

Also has a slow tranny leak, but I do not think that is causing me the bogging down as I checked the fluid when warm, and it still had enough in there to run properly.

What would you guys recommend that I add to the fuel to see if it can work itself out? I did fill it up the rest of the way with fresh 93 octane gas. Please help. Was thinking plugs and wires too maybe, but if they were bad, it wouldn't start so easily and run so well at lower rpms. I don't think!

I appreciate any advice before I have to bring it somewhere and get raped!

Glad to be part of this group. Love the boat, he did a nice job restoring it.

Jeff

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:32am


Is this the fuel filter on this motor? I see the fuel line coming into it, and then another leaving it going to the carb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:41am
Congrats on the boat!

The picture above would be your fuel pump. Not sure if those boats had a fuel filter. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:48am
Thanks, just realized that it the pump after looking at other sites. I did find the filter as it hooks directly into the carb. Pulled it out and it looks recent and seems ok, but for the few bucks, will change it since I already have it out. Does my bogging down issue sound fuel related? Can it be the pump or would it give me problems at lower rpmd as well if it was bad? Can you recommend a fuel additive to try and put through? Thanks for your help. Sucks being new to this and feeling stupid!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldSchoolBlue84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:55am
Never feel stupid, that's what this site is about. I am too an inexperience boat owner.

Seems like you are getting fuel, if you know, was the carb ever rebuilt? I had similar issues when I engaged into gear but it killed the engine. Had carb rebuilt and runs great.

Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 10:57am
The carb was rebuilt, he put a 2 barrel on it to save on fuel. Still has plenty of power. Looks clean as heck. Not sure why she is fighting me at full throttle but not at half or even 3/4. That was why I thought maybe adding something to the fuel would help, but I am not sure what to add. Like I said, the old gas may have been in there for a while. But why probs only when I want to go faster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 11:25am
First of all we need pictures If you have a timing light you could see if the distributor advance is working. For a fuel treatment you could try Seafoam,it has worked for me with yard equiptment. As to a 2bbl saving fuel I have heard that,not sure it's true. If your not into the secondaries I think a the primaries on a 4bbl would be smaller than a 2bbl thus saving fuel over a 2bbl

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 12:09pm
That looks like an automotive fuel pump and rubber hose going from the fuel pump to the carb. The pump needs to be replaced with a marine and that rubber hose needs to be replaced with hard line.

None of the above are causing your issue, as pointed out by Gary make sure it is timed properly and that the advance is working and then move on to the carb.
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Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 12:34pm
Pleas post a picture of the carb. If the fuel pump isn't up to code, possibly the carb isn't either. If you have to replace it, go with a 450cfm 4 bbl marine Holley.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 12:59pm
I will get a few pics in a few min, if I can get the baby down for a nap! UGH! It was just suggested to me by a guy at Autozone to replace the mechanical fuel pump with an inline electrical one. They have one for a 289 for only 42 bucks. Is this advisable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by jaclins jaclins wrote:

I will get a few pics in a few min, if I can get the baby down for a nap! UGH! It was just suggested to me by a guy at Autozone to replace the mechanical fuel pump with an inline electrical one. They have one for a 289 for only 42 bucks. Is this advisable?


NO! You need a marine fuel pump, this may work but you need to make sure. Also you need hard fuel line such as this. You do not want fuel being pumped into the bilge, it is very dangerous!

As Chris suggested we need to see a pic of the carb to make sure it is marine specific also.

N3 Boatworks is another good source for parts, CCF members get a discount!
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Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 2:15pm
Will this part fit what is essentially a 289 motor?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 2:53pm
Here are pics of the carb. Let me know what you guys think I need to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 3:55pm
I do noy reckognize the carb. See if you can get a list number off the air horn? I do not think it is a marine carb but I could be wrong. Get in touch with Zach(phatsat67)from N3 Boatworks and he can set you up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:02pm
I have to run out,I'll look later and see what the settings are supposed to be. Anyway that is the original type Ford carburator for that motor. Actually a pretty simple one that never gave me problems other than not starting as easy as a Holley. Not technically a marine carb,it was way before they were required. I think Vondy and I,who both have Holman Moody's are the only regulars who have had these carbs. I think he changed his too,I have a 450cfm Holley and a 600 to try sometime. That part on the carb where the hose clamps to is a fuel filter but I think that was added later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:05pm
Hey Gary who manufactures those carbs?

He says the PO put a 2 brrl on it, so is that the original for that engine or should it have a 4 brrl?
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Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:12pm
Jeff thats a Autolite/Motorcraft depending on the year. Ford had gotten into trouble with the govt and had to sell the parts division,then turned around and started Motorcraft. I don't think it will be a carb problem they are really simple, no power valves etc. I would never have added to the old gas,but that is done. Change the filter if you'd like put some Seafoam in and check the timing and advance first. Should not have a check valve on the tank outlet but you never know if someone added it. If this fails you might have to check fuel pressure and volume.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:18pm
It seems that based on what some of you have mentioned, I should change the fuel pump and lines regardless of whether that is causing me my problems or not. I do not want to put myself or my family or anyone else at risk of explosion. From what you guys have said, the automotive fuel pump and rubber gas lines are very bad. Would be great if the fuel pump ended up being my issue since I will likely have to change it anyway. Thanks for the help everyone by the way, really nice group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:35pm
Thanks for the info Gary!

Yes Jeff you need to put a marine fuel pump on , it has a dual diaphragm so if one ruptures it will pour the gas back into the carb via a clear tube. If you see fuel in the clear tube it is time to change the fuel pump. Also you need a hard line on the pressure side of the fuel pump to the carb, you do not want that rubber line to rupture and punp fuel into the bilge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:41pm
It is ok to have a rubber line from the fuel cutoff switch to the fuel pump though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by jaclins jaclins wrote:

It is ok to have a rubber line from the fuel cutoff switch to the fuel pump though?


Yes, on the supply side to the fuel pump rubber hose is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 4:57pm
And the carb I have has a nipple to place the clear hose that will go from the fuel pump? Sorry for sounding so ignorant. This is all new to me so if I ask some dumb questions, please bear with me. If you guys get down to Orlando, beer is on me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 5:00pm
Also, after I purchase a new fuel pump, how do I know which hardline is the right one that will fit perfectly for that specific fuel pump to my existing carb. Obviously the line is preformed and cannot be bent to fit. Will the 2 items that cphase linked me to work for that pump and my carb? Thanks again! If so, I will order them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cphase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 5:11pm
Jeff..cant say for sure on the pump, that is for 302/351, you need to check. I would say no for sure on the hard line, I am not that familiar with the engine you have. Gary said he would be back soon, he is more familiar as I believe he has the same setup so he can answer your questions. Sorry I cant be of more help right now! Good luck, keep us posted and let us know what you find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 9:23pm
I have a friend with a timing light. Can someone tell me what the proper settings should be? Hoping to adjust it on Sunday. Plus going to order the marine fuel pump. Thank you all so much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2013 at 11:38pm
First off you won't find a prebent fuel pipe for that antique,most would make up one from a brake line and bend it and maybe cut and reflare to fit.I don't use that carb anymore but mine had rubber hose too. I have switched mine and used a AN stainless braded hose which I understand is not Coast Guard approved either which is ironic because a AN hose is a hose approved for aircraft and stands for Army/Navy. As to the fuel pump just get a marine one. A commom misunderstanding is that all marine pumps have a double diaphram,some do some don't it's just a design difference,but all do have a fitting for the clear sight hose that goes to the arrester. What you do need is a pump that the fitting exits to the front,a rear exit will hit the oil pressure extension.
Since my engine didn't have a sight tube there was nowhere on the arrester to connect one so I made one. I used some brass sheet bent it to fit and soldered a tube on to connect the hose to. Here are some pic's









And the last tease picture,you can see how I routed the various hoses and you can see why finding a prebent pump to carb hose would be impossible to find since a Holley is more common than that Ford carb. A 2 bbl Holley would have the inlet in the same position as a 4bbl. If and when you decide to change the carb I personally would not bother with a 2bbl but would go with a 4bbl manifold and carb. Remember that just because you use marine grade items don't close the cover and ignore it,open it before the first start of the day and after refueling and use your eyes,nose and blower. 12 degrees at idle and .020 points will get you started.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2013 at 11:41pm
What's that cable hooked to the carb on the starboard side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2013 at 11:55pm
That is a manual choke Tim,just like mine in this pic when I first got
it,mine was rusted and didn't work. I was able to get an electric
conversion at NAPA at the time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaclins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2013 at 1:55pm
I am going to start replacing tune up parts as well so at least i know when things were done. Any recommendations for spark plug brand? gap? wires? cap? I for got how to change points. will have to get help with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-07-2013 at 6:59pm
Choke cable, well that was missing on my Mustang when I bought it. I don't think it had an electric one on it either. That Motorcraft carb has been on the shelf for a long time, now has the 3rd Holley on it.

Don't get sticker shock when you buy a new cap, it you have the flat top Mallory, those things are expensive now.
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