Bucket test |
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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Posted: December-26-2013 at 5:28pm |
how fast should my RWP suck up a 5 gallon bucket full of water when I'm doing the bucket test on the pump?
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Mullet Free since 93
95 Sport |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Once the temp comes up to where the thermostat opens it will drain fairly quickly.
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td_in_nc
Senior Member Joined: March-30-2012 Location: Clayton NC Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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I fill up a 5 gallon bucket before I start the boat, then I keep the hose on feeding the bucket. I can typically run it about 5 minutes before the bucket is empty - even with the hose on I cannot keep up with the water demand.
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gR@HaM
Platinum Member Joined: May-01-2012 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1265 |
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Same here, I ended up bringing home a 200L drum from work it lasts a lot longer!!
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'82 Ski Tique
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Like people are saying, you should see the level drop steadily, maybe 30 seconds to drain the bucket? Not sure of exact amount of time, but very fast.
What did you see when you ran the test? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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90-120 seconds to drain 5 gallons at idle (750-800 rpms).
Have had consistent probs during last year keeping temp steady at idle after skiing. goes as high as 200 sometimes. If i rev it in neutral it will cool to 170 and stay...buddies here who boat in salt water say replace manifolds. They are 7.5 years in salt water. |
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Mullet Free since 93
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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but i've had trouble with rwp--sometimes leaking. had to re-tap one bolt hole so I could tighten up...twice. I think it's sucking air on the intake side. However, I think replacing manifolds is good idea anyway....always a little too hot to touch in summer.
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Mullet Free since 93
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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While you might need manifolds, you should fix the water flow problem first. Keep in mind the manifolds are probably too hot from not enough water flow. I'd concentrate on the flow problem until it's fixed before doing anything else to the engine.
90-120 seconds is too long. When did you last replace the impeller? Also, if you've had to re-tap and fix a leak then you may either be sucking air or just have too much end play. I'd suggest the following: run a new impeller first if you haven't already changed it, then use a thin layer of permatex to seal the pump housing and see if that makes a difference. You may need a new pump. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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Thanks David. That's what I think too. Impeller is good...change it bi-yearly. The O ring in the pump has been an issue too...It never seems quite thick enough, but I've got several and they're all the same size. If you used permatex, which side of the brass plate would you put it on? pump side or housing/impeller side? I would think pump side, right?
I ordered a new rwp today. The bearing seems good, and it does suck water, but I am thinking it's just not enough--like you said. I figured it should empty that 5 gal bucket in 60 sec or less. I may try the permatex idea and if that seems to fix it I may send the pump back. I appreciate your suggested sequence...I agree. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Disconnect the RWP outlet and fill the bilge, that will eliminate the clogged manifold possibility. Not sure how much effect thermostat open/closed has, but with those temps the thermostat is definitely open. You could dump the exhaust manifold hoses to the bilge as well and compare.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21120 |
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If youre only overheating at idle, then you most likely have an air leak between the pick up and the pump. The increased RPM allows the increased water flow to overcome the small air leak. Check all hose ends for damage (cracks, etc) and tighten all clamps with a nut driver (not a screw driver). Also verify your strainer gasket is in good shape and that the bowl is installed very tight.
When a RWP is starting to pull air and fail, it will usually show up as an overheat at higher speeds/loads, not idle. Same goes for a blockage on the intake side. I have several RWP's that leak externally a bit... but they must not be pulling air because they allow the engine to regulate proper temperature just fine under all conditions. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Not only do the clamps have to be tight but the hose has to be all the way on the barb too, found that one this summer.
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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I have checked all possible air leaks including strainer (doesn't mean I didn't miss one) and think everything is tight. Disconnected hose from hull pickup and did bucket test there. Disconnected hose from tranny cooler and did bucket test there. Same results on time it took to empty bucket, so I'm thinking there is not an air leak between pickup and pump (again--I could be wrong). That's why I'm thinking it may be sucking air at the pump. The bearing seems to be good though.
I will recheck hoses tonight, perhaps I've got a crack in one--or the strainer. I think what Tim says makes sense...overheat at idle sounds like sucking air somewhere besides the pump. Thanks guys. Merry Christmas! |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Maybe pick up a new length of hose and connect it directly to the pump, other end in the bucket, which eliminates old hoses/barbs/strainer/cooler from the intake side of the pump. If the bucket still empties slow, you know it's the pump. The new hose can be used to replace all the old intake ones once you figure things out.
Not sure if you followed Hollywood's suggestion, also disconnect the pump outlet so there's no chance that manifold back-pressure is defeating the pump. Leave it off for all the above tests. At this point you should consider finding another CCF member's boat storage location and just steal their pump and replace with yours. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Run a RWP intake hose straight into the bucket. Go buy some clear vinyl tubing for IN and OUT, this way you'll probably see bubbles coming out if the pump itself is sucking any.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I guess we have good timing Kevin.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Yeah, I'm usually on top though and then do like 19 edits.
Point being, you can do more free/cheap tests before paying $400 for a new pump. Swapping in a known good one is a always a great idea too. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I would think too that a pump would have to be in pretty bad shape for it not to be able to be repaired. If the oring is not working you could go old school and make a gasket. Paper ones are used in some Jabsco's,I have made ones out of a business envelope since new ones are 12-15 bucks a pop. You need to use thin ones since you don't want to increase the end clearance of the impeller to the cover plate.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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And we still don't even know how exactly fast a good one empties a bucket...
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I feel stupid - I've watched it enough times to know what it should look like, but can't wrap my mind around how long it actually takes to empty. I guessed at 30 seconds, think it might even be less. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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I love it when I'm not on here for several months, but one post gets responses from old timers like Gary, Tim, and Kevin.
I may not get back to this until Sunday now (Irish playing tomorrow and I have to go to a frickin wedding). I did the bucket test with just the intake hose to the pump put directly in the bucket, but I haven't taken the outlet hose off for any test yet. Will do that like HW said and probably get clear hose to see if I can see bubbles. |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
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Once the temp comes up to where the thermostat opens it will drain fairly quickly
That statement is wrong, the RWP will pump the same amount of water regardless if the t-stat is open or closed. My GT40 will empty a 5 gallon bucket in about 12 seconds. If you don't have any air leaks and still runs hot at idle, it could be the cam is worn down too small inside the pump. |
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Tim D
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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OK. Bucket test with clear hose on both intake and output. Running at idle the 5 gallons empty in 90 seconds. There are bubbles in the outflow, but they aren't consistent--some bubbles, then no bubbles, then bubbles again. I made new gasket on the pump side of the brass cover plate and feel confident in the Oring seal. It's just not pumping enough water.
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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So Tim D, does this cam look worn? If it's supposed to be like the one on the left that you posted, then this certainly could be the problem, eh?
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Finally..not included in the 'old-timers'...altho I bet you did not mean age! None-the-less...it is always cool to have a Dude sighting! john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Was the outlet running open into the bilge, not still plumbed into the engine? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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correct 63. Not plumbed to engine...clear hose about 1 foot out of outlet from pump...not connected to thermostat housing. So manifold pressure was not an issue.
Jbear, you are definitely an old timer. However, since you can still barefoot, you are exempted from the title. |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Dude..you still make me grin! Hope you & the wife are doin' well! john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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The Dude
Platinum Member Joined: October-19-2004 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
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installed new rwp today. Wallah. Not only is it sucking the bucket dry fast (about 30 seconds at 800rpm), I took it to the water and ran it and it never went above 125F. manifolds and risers were warm, but not hot at all.
Apparently when I re-tapped the bolt holes on this pump, it's been sucking air ever since. Only in the last year did I really notice the temp jump, but good grief, my risers have never been this cool (Of course I'm usually running in 90 degree water instead of today's 50 degrees, but still!). Since we were out there, I pulled my 19 year old on a quick run. Nothing better than a January pull. thanks guys. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Even during/after skiing you never went above 125? Now we have another problem!
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