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small block chevy timing.

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    Posted: March-17-2014 at 6:54pm
I know the specs for timing at idle but what are you guys with chevys running on the other end. I never checked my old prestolite to see when all the timing was in rpm wize and at how many degrees. Now with the marine HEI im all in at 2000 rpm and at 36* with my distributor that leaves me with 16* at idle. The Hei has 20* mechanical advance I never tested the prestolite to see what was built in on it.I was wondering if I need to put more mechanical advance in my hei so I can get it back down to the 12* mark at idle, or back off my total timing or a little of both. Ideas??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 7:36pm
You are gonna smoke a piston at 36 total. I'll bet it lunges at starting?
Mine is pretty tight and the best I can get with 90 octane gas is about 12* base with about 28 at 4000 running a Thunderbolt V system. It runs really well there/ Any higher and it will start to ping. I would like to squeeze that last degree out and I may yet, just haven't done it yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 7:38pm
And BTW. What the heck are you doing with a SBC in that boat? I thought I was the only hack on here??????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 7:59pm
Chevy was a factory option... OMC offered the 307 then 305 and 350. PCM offered the 350 later as well. Of course, they all spun the proper way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:01pm
No hack here. Mine is factory GM R Rotation. ;-) I am testing a shortblock I built over the winter. Its a 408 with vortec heads and a factory camshaft for right now. No hard starting At 16* mine seems to like the timing but cant tell if I have ping. If I do its unnoticeable. Compression is a tad over nine to one with my current setup. I just wanted to know what everyone was running as a total advance with small block chevy for power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:04pm
And a side note, I believe I will be buying another prop. I went out the other day and twisted her to 5500 RPM and it would have gone much further.

This was going off the factory tach so that could be off by some. I dono??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:31pm
A stroker with Vortech heads? So sweet. What did you do for a cam? I have been quietly shopping heads while the wife is asleep. Just the heads and intake will take me to 310. Being a lefty I can find a cam for short money to go further. However I run in salt water so intake plenums are extremely limited.
I am interested and a bit jealous of your project. But if it aint lunging at 16* base I got nothing for you. Out of my league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:33pm
Hey some of us love our Chevy boat motors
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:37pm
Havent played with a SBC but our big block doesnt lug at 16... seems happy so we left it.

Extra cubes means you pushed the torque curve up, not just extended it to the right. Increasing pitch goes hand and hand with increasing cubes. You ended up with an OJ, right? 12x13? Going all the way to 400ci, I'd guess you want a 12x15 at least, maybe 12x16. Acme 1214 (12x13) would be the equivalent, it spins similar to the OJ 12x15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:55pm
Not that it applies but I turn the OJ 13 square 4850 at 48 mph with 280 estimated hp. 1979 SN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:55pm
Tim I took your advise on the last prop. It has an acme 1210 on it now. This motor seems to over power it quite a bit. At times it feels like a slipping auto trans. I think its 12&1/2x10 pitch. I got 54.5 @ 5550 rpm according to garmin and factory tach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 8:57pm
Correction 12.5x12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 9:02pm
Oh, I thought you didnt like the 1210, something about harmonics in your hollow hull? Maybe my memory is fading.

The 1210 is 12.5x12 and it turns comparable revs to an OJ 12x13, so just a few revs more than the 12x14 Federal, which was the common factory prop. Some boats (like yours and mine, if I remember correctly) came with 12x15 Federals, but mine could never quite pull it well (4200). My 302 loves the 1210 at 4500.

Going from 305 to 408 cubes will overwhelm a prop meant for the smaller engine for sure. Going to the 12.5x13 Acme (1214) would calm it right down- that wheel works well on a 375hp 347 stroker in Reid's Mustang. The 13" diameter version (430) works well on higher hp/tq versions of the larger boats. Getting the revs down will help performance if youve got a baby cam in there- peak power is probably 5k ish?

You must have had more throttle left at 54.5? I bet its got more with that many cubes in such a small boat. Probably a bit hairy at speed? Ive been in a few 16 footers capable of 55-57mph and its a wild ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

A stroker with Vortech heads? So sweet. What did you do for a cam? I have been quietly shopping heads while the wife is asleep. Just the heads and intake will take me to 310. Being a lefty I can find a cam for short money to go further. However I run in salt water so intake plenums are extremely limited.
I am interested and a bit jealous of your project. But if it aint lunging at 16* base I got nothing for you. Out of my league.


Bait killer, im still running a stock cam. Im just testing this for now. If it gives me problems im going to snatch it out and run the 350 during the peak of the summer. Still might pull it anyway untill i get the cam i want. I dont have the prop selection tim has and the cam could possibly change that too.As for as the motor its not stroked. Its a fourty over 400 with 5.7 rods and steel splayed mains with a steel crank, stock out of the box vortec heads and performer rpm intake. It does have the stock gearset pcm used and mixed 1.5 int and 1.6 exh roller tipped rockers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 9:19pm
The acme wasnt the noise. It was a bent shaft that had been checked. Not well enough obviously. The 54.5 was on rough water and if you want to call leaving the water for extended amount of time porpoising so be it. Ill let it be known I didnt hold it there very long! On smooth water and the right prop im hoping to flirt with sixty mph. I might cam it some so the 1214 would still be ok?

And your correct my boat did come with the 12x15. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 9:23pm
Tim what is your timing on the big block all in? I know the BBs dont like as much timing as small blocks just trying to get a safe number. As I said before if its pinging at 36* I cant tell. Is it noticable above the exhaust note? (No mufflers)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwouncmd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:15pm
My Tique is repowered with a chevy 350 (thanks to Waterdog/Andy); his description "350 cu in chevy with 9.2 comp. 4 bolt main caps, windage tray, Performer intake, ARP rod bolts, gear drive timing set, DUI ignition, 4160 holley". Runs just over 50 mph.

By the way, that jabsco impeller is a pain without a puller...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:32pm
I think you are backerds.. Big blocks run more timing..
Now i gotta Google it, should have done that first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:40pm
Dwouncmd i dont know what it is but this boat hasnt matched up with the average correct craft. This thing ran a constant 47 mph with a bone stock 305 12x15 federal. I changed the bottom end to a 350 ci performer rpm and marine hei and reused the 305 heads cam etc and it picked up to 49.5/50 mph gps. It was running one to one with the acme 1210 (2500 rpm 25 mph)(4000rpm 40mph)which tim said that was unusual. Now with the 408 its doing 54.5 on crap water with an obvious undersized prop and stock cam. Maybe its the fact that its now foamless (weight?) Or just better hull bottom for some reason?? Maybe the hook changed after stringer work? All three motors were ran on new stringers. Ohh and I dont have the jabsco pump its a sherwood.lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:43pm
Ill show you mine....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

I think you are backerds.. Big blocks run more timing..
Now i gotta Google it, should have done that first.


In my experience with old chevy hot rods the big blocks dont like as much timing a a small block. But it could be different in the boat world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:10pm


This is the 350. 400 looks no different. I havent took any of it yet.lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:26pm
Very nice. The decks, stern area and side walls bring back some recent memories. In fact it looks just like my boat did last year. Right down to grind marks running up the old carpet glue and the blower hoses shoved up over the fuel tank. You should try to organize a serpentine belt set up while you are messing around. It is a luxury I have grown quite fond of. No dust, never loses tension, never slips and lasts seemingly forever. Parts are pretty easy at the scraper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:36pm
Vic, your Tique sounds very average to me. I've seen stock 302's and 305's run anywhere from 45 to 51mph in the 16'5" hull. 47-48 is the norm. My skier is about the slowest example I can think of- it has touched 47 but is a 45.x boat on any given day. It tracks 1:1 speed vs rpm with the 1210.

I would think that even a bone stock 260hp 350 should push one of these hulls over 50 easily.

You never updated us on the bent shaft... You seemed convinced the Acme shook the boat. One of us should dig that thread up and update it for anyone reading it in the future.

I want to say we run around 35 total timing on our 454. It doesn't ping now, it was obvious when it did, you could hear and feel it loud and clear. Our engines are miles apart of course, big block vs small, were a tad over 10:1, etc. I know less about SBC's than just about anything.

Slight to moderate chop will result in a faster top speed, as it helps introduce air under the hull. Bouncing speeds you up as well. With 400ci, you gotta be all of 350-400hp, so I'd be surprised if you weren't close to 60.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:48pm
I think your right Tim. Just the heads takes him into the 310 ball park. Add another 50 cubes and nothing else should see the 360 ish neighborhood. Cam, intake and ignition, maybe a little valve train love and four and a quarter is pretty real. WOW! Put some copper pipes on it so everybody can hear it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-17-2014 at 11:59pm
Tim the bent shaft went with my buddy to his work. He is a cnc supervisor. He put it on a machinist table and said that he couldnt get a three thosandths shim under it anywhere. I installed in the boat and found later that was bent just aft of the log. And yes I need to update.sorry...lol. what fooled me was that the federal didnt amplify the issue like the acme did.. I guess ill keep it at 36* and keep my ears open.



Bait killer, pretty cool serp set up. Been contemplating it but the sherwood pump is going to screw me unfortunately. Also shes loud and proud with the copper tone already buddy. First mod was copper pipes...:-D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 3:57am
Originally posted by forvicjr forvicjr wrote:

I know the specs for timing at idle but what are you guys with chevys running on the other end. I never checked my old prestolite to see when all the timing was in rpm wize and at how many degrees. Now with the marine HEI im all in at 2000 rpm and at 36* with my distributor that leaves me with 16* at idle. The Hei has 20* mechanical advance I never tested the prestolite to see what was built in on it.I was wondering if I need to put more mechanical advance in my hei so I can get it back down to the 12* mark at idle, or back off my total timing or a little of both. Ideas??


Had a warm 350 Chev SB in one of my old ski boats. It was a auto engine with a local Aussie marine kit. With a Accel mechanical dissy and points used to run it at around 16-18 degrees static to get it to 38 total. The SBC can take 40 degrees but ran it a little conservative. It had no pinging or hard hot start issues although it never seen much more than 4K rpms for any length of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uk1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 9:49am
Vic cool project...if the heads haven’t already been pre prepped for bigger lift cam you will need to work on the vortec valve seal height/spring pads or longer valve stems and beehive springs over around 470 lift... machining is easy to do with the right cutters and hand drill, rocker posts are best changed from push in to tapped screw in type.

Keep us posted on your build.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 10:33am
You should be able to easily run 38 total advance. I was running 12 static and 38 total with my stock motor without any issues at all. Running the same with my stroker now.
I ran it up to 42 total and never had any issues but I didn't gain anything either so I backed it down to where it was the lowest advance without losing anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 11:11am
Remember, Higher the compression, both static and dynamic, will require less final timing. Stroke/rode ratio are also serious factors.

It has to do with the speed the flame front travels (faster with higher compression) and when peak cyllinder pressure occurs. Spark plug placement and combustion chamber shape are also factors.

So, to sum up, lots of numbers supplied here, but when one makes a stroker, changes heads, pistons and cam, thre is no 'chevy's run this' simple answer.
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