Boats For Sale:
First Nautique **Bad Engine |
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olivj 
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Joined: April-06-2015 Location: South Missip Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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 Topic: First Nautique **Bad EnginePosted: April-06-2015 at 2:28pm |
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Just picked up a local 82 Ski Nautique 2001with engine issues.....It has the 351W engine....
My Questions Are? 1. Can I just go get a 351W long block from a reman builder (like for a car or truck) and swap out long blocks? -or- Are there major differences that will prevent me from using a 351W engine from a car or truck application in the boat? (i.e.- will the motor mounts, marine exhaust manifolds, pulley drive systems, etc, from the boat work?) 2. Related to question 1 above can these engines be replaced with a 5.0 302 Car or truck engine? I am a bolt on DIY guy....I don't have a lot of fabrication skills but I am a "knowledgeable" mechanic. Meaning I can use tools and I understand internal combustion engine logic. I just wanted to know my options as I begin the tear down and be prepared to know what it will cost to replace it depending on the damage seen when I get in there. Also....I need some parts and this an older job so.....Anyone know where I can purchase replacement stuff for this boat and drivetrain from? I need things life rubber exhaust hose and Exhaust flappers, etc? THANKS IN ADVANCE, OLIVJ |
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DayTony
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Joined: June-30-2013 Location: Salem MA Status: Offline Points: 830 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 2:47pm |
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first things first, your distributor, cam and timing assembly is going to be different than a over the road block because it is most likely reverse rotation.
hoses and such should be able to be found at any marine store like west marine or port supply. Or if you can find a friend with an account Kellog is usually chepest way out. out of curiousity what are the current engine "issues" |
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1988 Barefoot nautique-454
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Fl Inboards
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Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 3:33pm |
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I have a original great running Right rotation 351 PCM / Borg engine combination ready to set in your boat. New Carb all tuned up ready to go. Your in So Mississippi I am in PC Florida. pull your engine trans package put it on a crate bring it and $2000 to PC and swap it for this one. you will not be disappointed! or just bring the whole boat I can swap the engines in less than an hour for the same price.
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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olivj
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Joined: April-06-2015 Location: South Missip Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 4:52pm |
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When you say PC Florida are you talking Panama City? I am going to be in Destin FL on 19-22 of this month....
Hmmmmm...... How Many Hours is on the motor? Do you run a business (boat repair)? THANKS, OLIVJ |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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olivj
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Joined: April-06-2015 Location: South Missip Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 5:01pm |
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Guy I bought it from, which is a long time friend, said he took it out last year and was running it....killed engine while swapping tubers.....wouldn't crank...said it sounded like the started was dragging...loaded it by hand brought it home parked it under the shed and went to get it ready for the water....hooked hose to it while replacing the starter....same thing dragging....he had water on cylinders pulled plugs pumped it out....went to change the oil and it was milky....I assume it has a crack somewhere....boat came with an extra set of rebuilt heads from a road 351W.....\
Just bought the boat late yesterday evening...I was planning on pulling the heads and seeing what could be seen without removing the engine then if I didn't like what I saw I was going to put a long block in it.. DayTony...I know this is really vague but I just got the boat yesterday and I just starting researching on what it will take to get it in the water. |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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Fl Inboards
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Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 5:26pm |
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Hi Jeremy,
Yes I run and own Florida Inboards inc. In Panama City Florida. Engine came out of a 87 Martinique. It has a new Carb and full tune up and oil and filter change, trans has been pumped and new trans fluid, it also has electronic ignition. It has 600 hours on it, We ran the engine on a skid after we pulled it and it was amazing on how well it ran. I am not splitting the package. You bring me the boat in the morning we are skiing that afternoon. If you are on Face Book you can go to our FB Page Florida Inboards and there is a 31 sec video of the engine running. Jody Seal Florida Inboards Inc. Panama City, Florida. 850 215 1996 |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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JoeinNY
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Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 6:13pm |
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That’s a pretty good deal there Jeremy. The engine that should be in that boat runs the reverse of what an automotive engine does. So you would need a reverse rotation marine long block to do it right. The cheapest you are going to find is in the 1300 range and its pedigree will be questionable. Then you need to buy gaskets, get dirty, and hope that all the rest of the stuff on the engine weren’t the reason you got water up in there (intake and exhaust manifolds would be definite possibilities). If you wanted to be super cheap and someone gave you an automotive engine you could put it in and buy a new prop to run it but you still would need to hope the rest of your stuff was in good repair and you would be left with a boat that the engine turned in the “wrong” direction – it would work but it would have a very limited resale market and just not be correct. Jody is as solid as you get in this business .
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rebel skier
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Joined: October-17-2014 Location: Middle Tenn Status: Offline Points: 771 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 6:34pm |
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Kind of new at this, but could the prior owner have just hydrolocked it? And then gotten water in the oil when he tried to re-start?
Why not put oil in the cylinders and change the oil, turn it with a breaker bar and then try to fire it up, and then see if the new oil gets milky? |
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olivj
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Joined: April-06-2015 Location: South Missip Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 7:44pm |
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It wont run at all now....After he changed the oil he never could get it to run again.
Jodi, could you do it on a Saturday? Will talk with my wife tonight and see if she wanted to try and go down a day early and be there for lunch time and spend the night in PC? Will talk with her tonight and shoot you a PM tomorrow sometime. Saw the video BTW of it running, looks a little rough but it sounds strong!! |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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olivj
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 7:47pm |
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BTW the previous owner said that there was a switch or something that could be changed inside of the bell housing or fluid drive that would allow for either a reverse rotation engine or a regular rotation engine....
I am not a boat mechanic by any means and don't know if he is off his dang rocker or not but have you guys ever heard of that? He said that the reason that he knows is because he had a new fluid drive installed and said that he forgot to flip it over to the correct rotation and ended up having to pull it back apart to fix it.... |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 8:57pm |
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Jeremy,
I won't kiss that engine goodbye just yet. It's possible that your friend while tubing   sucked water into the engine. With a healthy reverse and then cutting the engine it is feasible. The slow crank may be from cylinder wall corrosion. Pull the plugs, squirt some oil in the cylinders, change the oil, make sure you have a good starting battery (NOT DEEP CYCLE), clean you battery connections and give it a try.
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Posted: April-06-2015 at 9:04pm |
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Yes, the trans can be changed for engine rotation but a 1:1 ratio DOES NOT change the engine to prop shaft rotation. The trans change is so the internal hydraulic pump develops pressure.
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Fl Inboards
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Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2065 |
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Posted: April-07-2015 at 10:56am |
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That's some not so great advice! Yea! let's see,,,, engine consumes water in cylinder's, then sits for a year with the water in the cylinders. Let's break it loose and run it!!! Seen this many times. Problem with all this is that after the rust eats away in the cylinder walls rings no longer create compression in the affected cylinder's, Overall excessive taper is created and then those affected cylinders are very low on compression. Running engine under this condition could further damage an engine that could very well be bored and rebuilt.
Getting a recent hydro locked engine running again is not a problem (we have an affect 6 liter right now). We see this when customers loose an impeller and run the engine hot then quickly shut it down and sit in the water. again this situation provided not catastrophic is normally and easily repaired and the customer is back up and running in no time. Jeremy yes we can accommodate you on a Sat. However I am offering this pull out engine at a price that includes your power plant as a core. keeping it un molested and in one piece is crucial to the transaction. 850 215 1996 Jody |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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Mountain Man
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Joined: May-09-2014 Location: Brevard, NC Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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Posted: April-07-2015 at 5:11pm |
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That sounds like a good price on the engine swap; especially, given that installation is included! Some of Fish Nautiques were re-powered in the mid 1990's with a standard rotation engine and fitted with a new PCM 40 1.23:1 gear and new props. Mine was and I saw one other on the forum that referenced it as well. That too is an option. Looks like the engine mounts move about an inch forward with that application.
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JoeinNY
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Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Posted: April-07-2015 at 6:13pm |
It is an option for sure, but you will be a quick 2200+ bucks into a transmission, shaft, and prop... then you can think about paying for the engine and new marine starter, distributor gear, etc. Not a bad way to go but certainly not a frugal swap. |
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: April-07-2015 at 7:05pm |
Jody, I did not see that the engine sat for a year. Jeremy, By the engine from Jody before he gets madder at me! 
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Fl Inboards
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Posted: April-08-2015 at 11:19am |
Not Mad at All Pete, Just pointing out the non realistic approach that was submitted as advice. There are many threds on the rebuild of the SBF on this forum that are very good, informative and concise. The Gentleman who started this thred is new to Correct Craft world and maybe even inboards in general. The learning curve to a new person can be frustrating when all they want to do is get on the water as safe and economical as possible. |
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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olivj
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Joined: April-06-2015 Location: South Missip Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: April-08-2015 at 11:48am |
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Jodi, I have not forgotten about you and I am interested. I am just simply trying to line everything up to make sure that I can make it down there before I call and tell you it is a go FOR SURE. There is nothing worse in my mind than me telling you I am coming and have to call the day before and say I am not going to be able to make it. That is not a good way to make friends in this new to me Correct Craft Arena.
As soon as I can work out the details. I will call you and we can set everything in stone for sure. I am interested...but my trailer needs tires and I need to crawl under the trailer and check bearings and lights and all of that too before I commit to a 5 hour drive. I am also going to need to contact the condo that I am staying at (after the install) and make sure that there is somewhere to park the boat during our vacation. And trust me....I don't mind tinkering on things that I know a lot about but this boat is not something that I know a lot about. I would much rather be hauling a little but around the lake rather then wrenching and scratching my head wondering wth is going on. So I am going to do some research before I dive off into a project like this one alone. Which is really the whole reason for me joining this forum. THANKS AGAIN and Jodi, I will be in touch to talk as soon as I can, OLIVJ |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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rebel skier
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Posted: April-08-2015 at 1:34pm |
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Jody, for the record, I clearly did not submit it as advice. I asked it as a question, to which you could clearly give advice in many different styles.
My read was that the guy drained the water, and only gave up when he saw milky oil, not that it sat with water for a year. Now, water drained or in there, if that amount of time would mean it is too rusted, that is good information to learn. Never did I say don't buy Jody's engine until you try this. Go back and re-read. I am just trying to learn. |
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olivj
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Posted: April-14-2015 at 12:24pm |
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Jodi looking forward to meeting with you...
THANKS, Jeremy |
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Jeremy Oliver
2001 Nautique |
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Smithfamily
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Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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Posted: April-14-2015 at 2:29pm |
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Jeremy,
For what it is worth, 5 years ago I bought my boat (92 SN) with a blown head gasket at a discounted price. After examining the motor, doing my homework on repair/ replacement options, I decided to rebuild. Other than the rebuild of the motor, I did all work myself, (Pulling motor, disconnecting, securing and delivery to machine shop, re-installing, tuning ETC.) which took time, effort and knowledge. (Most the knowledge was obtained here!!) It cost (5 years ago) $1800 for the rebuild, and roughly another $750 misc. (Coil pack bad, new filters, belts, hoses, etc.) Even when I finally had her back in the water, there were "adjustment" challenges. I am happy now, and happy that I did it, but $2000 for a swap, install and the experienced shop behind, is very impressive. Good luck whatever you do! |
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Js
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Fl Inboards
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Posted: April-20-2015 at 3:33pm |
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The bad engine and wow!!! Is it bad,Really Glad that Jeremy Brought it over to be replaced. Now we have to educate him about correct wiring and family safety!!
  
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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Bri892001
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Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Posted: April-20-2015 at 3:47pm |
Time to Un-Leash the PETE!!!!  
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Mountain Man wrote: