Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 351w Timing, Igntion & Overheat - Q&A
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

351w Timing, Igntion & Overheat - Q&A

 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <12
Author
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 3:00pm
The new engine didn't come with a circulator pump, I opted for a new one over my used pump and purchased a new one from ebasicpower. It was ordered and looked to be a bi-directional pump.
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 4:04pm
this may sound stupid, but are your mufflers rotated correctly?
I just put my exhaust back together just right now and was getting about a 20 degree difference between the port and starbord side. i noticed the port muffler was rotated a bit sideways. i indexed it correctly and both sides are now perfect.
just a thought. one more thing to be certain of.
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 4:21pm
I applicate the help, you never know which of the small details will lead you to the answer. As for my mufflers I'm pretty sure they are in the right orientation, they have 45 deg elbows molded right into them so they're pretty hard to not put in right..
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 4:46pm
haha roger that. mine, as you know are just straight.
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-28-2015 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by DayTony DayTony wrote:


I'm also running an oil cooler.   

I have to ask why?


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
gun-driver View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: July-18-2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:08am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

What water pump did the motor come with? I assume your turning the motor righty is the engine pump bi directional?


I'm talking about the water pump mounted to the front of the motor not the raw water pump with the rubber impeller. Just to clairify which pump we're talking about.
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 1:48am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by DayTony DayTony wrote:


I'm also running an oil cooler.   

I have to ask why?


The real question should be "why not?"
I was mistaken about my engine running an oil cooler, the oil cooler i have runs to the gear. I don't know why i thought that.
But most marinized engines I have seen run an oil cooler and i don't see any problem using them.
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 6:52am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

What water pump did the motor come with? I assume your turning the motor righty is the engine pump bi directional?


I'm talking about the water pump mounted to the front of the motor not the raw water pump with the rubber impeller. Just to clairify which pump we're talking about.


Yes, the circulator pump is the one I replaced with a new marine bi-directional unit.

Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 11:44am
I'll throw an idea out there. I know you said you replaced all of your hoses, but are they wire reinforced on the suction side?

Either way, see if you can have a buddy take a look under the engine cover while at speed and make sure nothing is collapsing or making any funny kinks or bends while under high rpms (high suction)
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:16pm
I'll admit only 90% of my raw water intake system is reinforced hose.   The other 10% is made up clear vinyl hose that is not suction rated. Why would I knowingly use it?

A.)     I didn’t want to cut up my good hose when installing the Timmy T flushing hookup between the thru-hull and the strainer.

B.)     There isn’t much room in the Tique so after all the flushing parts are installed there isn't more than 1-2” between fittings so I went with the clear stuff. I did try to collapse a test piece with pliers and couldn't get more then 1/8" deflection.

C.)     I wanted to see how good the flushing system worked so having small sections of clear hose work as an in-line sight glass.

Obviously it will be checked tomorrow on the lake. I would love nothing more then to be wrong.
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:25pm
Sounds like you've put thought I to that aspect anyway.

Make sure you haven't inadvertently built any restrictions into your flushing set up as well.

Another thing I'd be interested to know, when your engine is in an overheated state, are your exhaust risers super hot as well?

Just wondering because those are cooled more directly by you RWP and should Edit: NOT be temperature dependent on your Circulation pump and t-stat.
Back to Top
GottaSki View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah


Joined: April-21-2005
Location: NE CT
Status: Offline
Points: 3327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:32pm
I'm Still suspect of the tstat.

Some are highflow. Some don't flow much at all.

and, it is oriented correct, yes?



"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

River Rat to Mole
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:46pm
It's something to keep an eye on, though I did follow the instructions outlined in this thread Advice for reviving a '87 SN 2001 after 10yrs for building the flushing adapter.

As for the risers: I can normally hold my hand on them and they IR temp out at 120-140ish. After the barefoot run I can touch them for a little bit, but they are hot (like 180-200). The exhaust hoses are pretty consistent so I though it was just the extra heat from running at higher rpms for 4-5 min.

Also I tested it again yesterday off the hose and I was getting 145 deg at the thermostat to water pump neck. The water coming in was so cold it had condensation on the top of the t-stat cover and on the risers. When I ran it up to 3000 rpm for a few min the t-stat to pump neck reading would go up to 150 then drop down to 135 (I assume that’s the t-stat opening) Oddly enough though the gauge would hover right at 160-170 ish. Ignoring gauge discrepancy I wonder if I’m just getting an air pocket at the top of the intake where the t-stat and temp sender are located.

As I mentioned before I had disconnected the lower (return) heater hose from RWP line, but I did leave the upper hose attached to the intake. Each of my heater hoses have ball valves so one of my tests tomorrow is going to be to open the upper heat hose ball valve, if it bleeds air out I know I’m drawing from somewhere. If it’s just water I can try to get an actual temp reading from the intake water.
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

I'm Still suspect of the tstat.

Some are highflow. Some don't flow much at all.

and, it is oriented correct, yes?


Me too. I mean it's a new t-stat, but you never know. For that reason I did dig out my original last night. If I don't see any improvements tomorrow I plan on pulling the "new" t-stat , test both of them on the stove and put the old one back in.

As far as I know it's in there right, the spring side is down into the water.
Back to Top
Hollywood View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: February-04-2004
Location: Twin Lakes, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 13510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 3:06pm
If the risers are hot the t-stat is not the problem. A stuck open t-stat will keep the engine cold and a stuck closed t-stat will heat up the engine but the risers will be cold.

Get 2 garden hoses.

Hook one up to the t-stat housing where the RWP usually supplies the engine.

Do a bucket test with the other and monitor the RWP output as well as engine temp.

If you only have 1 hose then go back and do a bucket test with a new long hose from bucket directly to the RWP. You've got a lot of connections going on in a tight space.
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-29-2015 at 10:36pm
I see the struggle goes on with your overheat issue but only when working it hard.
I read advice in this thread on setting your timing.
I read your settings at idle but I never saw what your timing is at speed.
Total timing is the timing achieved when the distributor is fully advanced.
Most are fully advanced somewhere between 2,800 and 3,500 RPM.
You need to find out how much timing you have when the distributor is fully advanced,.
It should advance smoothly from idle to the point where it is all in.
Once it stops advancing run it up another 500 RPM just to make sure you have a good reading and it really has reached full advance.
Timing lights are available with a dial back setting or you can buy timing tape at a speed shop that you can apply to your damper to allow reading the timing all the way to 45 degrees.   Marine distributors are famous for rusting the weights inside the distributor that control your advance. Some stick and don't advance.   They can be cleaned and greased and returned to normal operation for no cost usually if you do the work.
Total timing is far more important to good engine performance than timing at idle.
Determine your total timing and set it at 34 to 36 degree's. Your idle setting should be close to the factory recommended setting when the total timing is correct.
Once you determine how much advance your distributor gives you it will be easy to set the idle Timing.   If the distributor gives you 24 degrees of advance you can set your idle to 10-12 degrees and know the total timing will be 34-36 and all is good. IE: 10 + 24 =34 degree's total advance.
If you don't get similar numbers your distributor will need attention.
Too much advance will make it run hot and can cause engine damage and pinging on acceleration. Too Little advance can cause it to run hot and have weak performance.
Both are bad. You really need to know how yours is performing before chasing other issues. If your weights are rusty and sticky they can give you many operating issues.   I hope you get dialed in soon, Ski Season is Now!
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-30-2015 at 6:06pm
Update:

1st off, A+ for National Carburetor. My re-man carb came in at 5:30 last night and it is a thing of beauty. I mean I know how it looks has nothing to do with how it works, but I was pleasantly surprised to find a polished aluminum carb that looked more like brand new then a re-man. Anyway, I bolted it on with my new flexible fuel line and gaskets from Skidim and SOB if it didn't fire right up after priming. I've never heard anything like it, it was quiet, ran great and Idled down to 400 rpm (didn't even know the engine would run that slow, but I adjusted it back to 500-600). More amazing was the performance at the lake this AM. I mean I was happy with the performance before, but now it's like a whole new boat.




Lake test: 5:30am I fired up the boat and we made a run across the lake to pick up our 3rd. The boat seemed normal, ran at 150-160 the whole time. We picked up our third and headed out for the first glass smashing barefoot run of the day. My buddy kicked a ski and we were off. Just like before the boat ran hot after a few min. At full bore (45-46 mph) we were pushing 4300 rpm. Spec'd out at 4400 rpm max, 4300 rpm was too close for comfort so I backed off to 38 mph. Again just like before once we slowed down the temp dropped back to normal.

After our barefoot run we pulled the engine cover and made another 45 mph run watching the clear section of the water inlet. No real bubbles to speak of, nothing more then I get running off the hose in the driveway.

Getting back to the 4300 rpm speed. The boat came with (to me) a 12RH14 prop however I did pick up a 12RH15 to have as a spare. The fog rolled in this AM after our barefoot run so we pulled the boat & swapped props at the ramp.

You want to talk about a different boat? I mine as well use the 12x14 as my anchor because that thing is NEVER going back on the boat. We made a 50.2 mph run (GPS confirmed) before we started porpoising and the boat had only gotten up to 3900 - 4000 rpm.   We then cruised around at 41-45 mph (3200-3400 rpm) and guess what? Temperature stayed at 160-170.

MrMcD: As soon as I get my hands on some timing tape or an adjustable light I will get that checked out. Currently I'm running off base time and the fact it does not (and has never) pinged. I plan on picking up a new timing light tonight.


Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-31-2015 at 2:24am
It's interesting that the overheat problem seems to be correlated to RPM, not necessarily to speed or to engine load.

This gives me another idea. Occasionally, impellers can fail (or be defective out of the box) in such a way that the metal part that keys into the shaft will spin freely of the rubber outer part. When I say spin freely, not necessarily "freely." Just that, with enough resistance, there will be some slippage.
Back to Top
MrMcD View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: January-28-2014
Location: Folsom, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 3581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-31-2015 at 5:43am
It sounds like you are using the boat and having fun. Good for you.
Glad the carb worked out so well. I had a 78 Nautique from 82 to 1991.
I turned a 13 x 14 prop and loved it. The boat would cruise 40 MPH at about 3,500 RPM
and did a little over 50 easily. I had pumped up the engine a little, raised the compression and ported and polished the heads but it ran nearly as fast before the new heads went on and I never switched to the 13x13. I loved the 13x14 on that hull. We did a ton of Barefooting and preferred it to the 1983 Nautique my buddy had. for barefoot runs.
He did a lot of one foots and mine pulled over 40 MPH without hitting the 4 barrel.
The only time mine ran hot was when the impeller was due for a change. Other than that it sat on 140 all the time.   The owner of West Coast Correct Craft used to be on the lake with us and he always had a 454 powered boat. He could pull out more skiers but he could not outrun us as we crossed the lake getting to the ski area's. Used to tick him off. I loved it.
Back to Top
80SN Barnfind View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-13-2010
Location: Niagara River
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 80SN Barnfind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-31-2015 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by DayTony DayTony wrote:

this may sound stupid, but are your mufflers rotated correctly?
I just put my exhaust back together just right now and was getting about a 20 degree difference between the port and starbord side. i noticed the port muffler was rotated a bit sideways. i indexed it correctly and both sides are now perfect.

Tony, real quick so as to not hijack the thread, you mention indexing the muffler and I'm wondering what the proper orientation is? I posted this same question to the forum a few years back and never got a definitive answer. Here's a shot looking down the end of one of mine;


Which way is up?

Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.



Back to Top
Gary S View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-30-2006
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 14096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-31-2015 at 2:49pm
That is the correct way,opening down so that the water drains out. If you had the opening at the top water would collect ,making your exhaust pipe smaller too. Could also freeze if left in there.
69 Mustang HM SS
95 Nautique Super Sport
Back to Top
DayTony View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: June-30-2013
Location: Salem MA
Status: Offline
Points: 829
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2015 at 2:05pm
yes you want it to naturally drain or you will quickly fill your engine with water. The orientation i was asking in my thread before was which direction the flow wanted to go through the baffles. I decided to run it with the side you pictured facing the engine. i don't know if that was right or not but it seemed to work well.
Andy good to hear you've got it going good now. what cfm is the new carb?
1988 Barefoot nautique-454
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-01-2015 at 2:07pm
600 cfm, direct replacement for the one that was on there.
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 11:25am
Andy, I think you just drove by me. I'm watching my nephews t ball game at the field by the Holland Police Station.

It was getting (staying haha) boring. I was like, whoa, CorrectCraft... that's a Tique... I think I know what one. I snapped a pick to prove it; I'll upload it later.
Back to Top
LeftFieldEngineering View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December-20-2010
Location: Monson, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 384
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftFieldEngineering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 4:37pm
Caught me .

We were heading to a different lake after our morning spot filled up with fishing boats.

If your in the area again and want to come out for a ski.

Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-06-2015 at 9:33pm
My brother lives right out there in Brimfield, so I'll definitely shoot you a line next time I'm out there. Hope you had a good day at the lake, it was definitely nice weather today despite it being a little overcast.

Here is the proof

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page    <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC