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Surge Brakes .....no back up

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NCH20SKIER View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-20-2015 at 9:01pm
Still fighting the ability to back up any slight grade-
The trailer coupler slides and locks the brakes up. I have checked the oil in the resivior and the level is fine.
This is really starting to Irritate the pi$$ out of me.

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2015 at 9:18pm
Greg,
You said you are still fighting the brakes. Forgive me since I can't remember who it was recently with the same problem. Was it yourself?

Surge brakes do have a means of locking out the braking function in the coupler. The nice automatic system is a solenoid activated by your back up lights.that cuts off the hydraulics. The manual is a lever or pin on the coupler. It stops the movement of the coupler so it doesn't compress the master brake cylinder.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2015 at 9:19pm
No where to put a pin in to block the coupler from sliding? Mine doesn't have one either it uses the backup light circut to trigger a solenoid to allow it to back up which is troublesome when you try to move the trailer with a tractor. I assume you have disc brakes?
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NCH20SKIER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-20-2015 at 9:31pm
Pete
Yes it was me and I am still fighting it

It is a Titan Coupler with disk brakes.

I will need to see if there is a spot to lock out the cylinder but do not recall one. Never had this issue up until a month ago
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 12:16am



Is this helpful?

Found it on Titan web site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 12:27am
What brand coupler??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 8:56am
So the Coupler is a Titan Model 60 - no way to lock out.

Ground looks good although have not removed and cleaned as all lights are working. Could the cylinder that compresses when backing have given up the fight? No visible signs of oil / seal leakage.

Pricey actuator......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 10:19am
Originally posted by NCH20SKIER NCH20SKIER wrote:

So the Coupler is a Titan Model 60 - no way to lock out.
Ground looks good although have not removed and cleaned as all lights are working. Could the cylinder that compresses when backing have given up the fight? No visible signs of oil / seal leakage.

The master cylinder is good. If bad, it would be leaking and you wouldn't have very much braking. The coupler moves with forward momentum of the trailer moving the master cylinder compressing the brake fluid activating the in your case the calipers,

Greg,
Get the VOM out and check to make sure the solenoid is getting power when the back up lights are on. Is the vehicle even wired for the lock out solenoid? Don't go changing the "pricey" solenoid before you do some testing. You don't want me calling you a "parts changer"!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 7:16pm
The VOM will have to wait until next week. I dripped the master cylinder for today to get things put away.

Pete
The tow vehicle is a 2015 F-150 with tow package and all factory wired so I have not had a need to get in there and mess things up. While the factory wiring could be the culprit it is doubtful.

Favorite / reliable VOM meter? I need to grab one for the lake as one always proves to be where I am not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 7:24pm
Greg,
Did a wiring diagram come with the factory tow package? My Suburban did but all the available connections were not wired. Things like auxiliary power say to a horse trailer for lighting or battery charging on a trailer. Back up lights weren't wired ether since trailers typically don't have them. Is it a 7 way round on the truck?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 8:00pm
The newer Chevy's Pete, you know the ones with the cooled seats, are wired for the brakes but you need the round adapter to the flat 5 pin plug. I wish they would just have a lockout pin or something, would be easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

The newer Chevy's Pete, you know the ones with the cooled seats, are wired for the brakes but you need the round adapter to the flat 5 pin plug. I wish they would just have a lockout pin or something, would be easier.

Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

is troublesome when you try to move the trailer with a tractor.

How about a cooled seat on the tractor too?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 11:00pm
Pete
It is a 7 round - I have a 7 round with a 5 flat option. I know the plug is wired as the B/U lights on the Boatmate trailer my Chris Craft sits on work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 11:21pm
I ran into issues with my factory plug and the 7 Round to 5 way adapter.. There are RV 7-way plugs and there are utility/cargo 7-way plugs which are the same plug wired differently....CRAZY, I know! I ran into issues running 7-way power to the RV Truck camper and at the same time running power to the 5-way boat trailer..... it was a wiring diagram fiasco!

The GMC 7-way Round is wired for utility/cargo and the adapter that I had was wired for RV style...... so put a Meter on the output plug(s) and if all correct, put power to the solenoid. Mine clicks with power...... If the wiring was wrong, you would have more noticeable lighting issues..... I bet your solenoid is toast!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Air206 Air206 wrote:

If the wiring was wrong, you would have more noticeable lighting issues..... I bet your solenoid is toast!

Not really. When Greg checks for power to the solenoid, he can also Ohm out the solenoid coil to see if it's open or not. It will be interesting to hear what he finds.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-21-2015 at 11:35pm
My boat trailer actually has little white LED telltale lights that illuminate to show when it's getting current from the reverse light circuit.

Also, you may have to give it a good jerk In forward first to make sure the mechanism is unloaded for the solenoid to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCH20SKIER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2015 at 9:15am
Steve may be on to something. Each tow vehicle has an adaptor that stays with that vehicle, all issues I can recall are limited to a single vehicle / adaptor. Could be a coincidence but something that needs to be ruled out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2015 at 9:48am
The Volt meter will tell you...... I was twisted 6 ways from Sunday trying to tap a marine 5-way plug into the Canadian RV 7-way plug plugged into the new GMC utility/cargo factory plug. I stopped looking at wrong googled diagrams and just slowly traced every wire with the meter........ I also used an old PWC battery for 12V to check the solenoid.

I can't tell you what colors to use.... but I can tell you crazy colors are soldered to one another in my spliced adapter.... but it works slick and a plactic wire bridle covers the crazy wire colors that made me nuts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartyMabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2015 at 12:10pm
When I worked on this 2003 SAN trailer- hooking up to the 83 MCSS- i had to do this. The blue wire is the solenoid wire in the harness I think.. You say it worked before- but now doesn't... Kinda seems like that solenoid is bad..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2015 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by MartyMabe MartyMabe wrote:

   Kinda seems like that solenoid is bad..

We won't know until the VOM comes out and he Ohm's the coil. Could also be a bad ground?? We all know it's an issue with start relays since they are grounded via the base. Trailers are nothing but a ground problem!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-22-2015 at 8:01pm
Dang Greg,

If I had not just bought a new to me boat, I would of taken that problematic 206 off of your hands for a even trade for my Cypress Gardens, Momba Worlds 1980, Masters 1980's, Sea World (Fresh Water Tank), Bush Gardens, Six Flags Over GA Boat in a heart beat.
Story of my life.

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