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Repowered 77 SN reverse rotation not circulating

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    Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:17pm
Hello All,

A friend has a 77' SN. Nice shape.

A few years back he repowered with a 350 w/ electronic ignition. The motors rotation is reverse of the original 351.

The motor will not circulate water.

He suspects that a new impeller is needed & perhaps a water pump. Or a new impeller and reversing the hoses on the water pump.

I told him I had a few friends that know a bit about these things.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:26pm
David,
You say "circulating".Do you suspect the circulating pump? Then you say he will change the impeller. That's on the RWP. (raw water pump) Some more information would be great. I suggest doing a bucket test on the RWP to see if it's pumping. and it's rotation is correct for the rotation of the engine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:33pm
Well there's the problem, his hose is disconnected from the tstat housing!! Even if the impeller is backerds, doesn't it straighten itself out? Do the circulating pumps really fail? I think they just leak rather fail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by Orlando76 Orlando76 wrote:

if the impeller is backerds, doesn't it straighten itself out?   

Todd,
A rubber impeller will correct it's blade direction per the rotation of the pump however, pump rotation determines specific inlet and discharge position of hoses.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:49pm
Doh! I wasn't thinking the hoses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2015 at 11:53pm
Hey Guys,

Thanks for your responses.

I'm waiting for a phone call back to answer your questions rather that speculate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2015 at 12:14am
Hi,

Responses to your questions.

- Yes the RWP. It was working on the 351.

- I believe that the RWP has the wrong rotation because it's from the 351. If so, would reversing the hoses allow for correct operation?

- The tstat is disconnected because it's winterized.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2015 at 12:35am
I'm not clear from original problem description.

It was repowered several years ago - did it work for 2 years & recent fail? Or has it never worked?

Did the owner take the RWP off for winter storage?

Look for what was changed last.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2015 at 12:46am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I'm not clear from original problem description.

It was repowered several years ago - did it work for 2 years & recent fail? Or has it never worked?

Did the owner take the RWP off for winter storage?

Look for what was changed last.


- Has never worked properly.
- The RWP was not taken off for winter storage.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2015 at 7:16am
See if the hoses can be reversed on the RWP. It will probably requie pipe fittings and new hose.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-20-2015 at 10:04am
Couple points: Are we absolutely sure it's a standard rotation engine. Looks to be a pretty normal Chevy OMC, and I have never run across a standard rotation one. Not that they don't exist, but I would think less common. If rotation is being based on what starter it has, remember that these rear/top starter mounts use a standard rotation starter for a reverse rotation engine. I suppose the owner should know, if he went through all the fuss to get a new propeller to match the new rotation, I guess we will assume he is correct. Might be worth verifying though.

Second, that is not the pump off the old 351. The is the original OMC pump to that engine. Note the matching OMC color, note that there is not a bracket, but that the pump bolts directly to the block and I doubt ford and chevy coordinated on that and besides those two factors, I know what an original OMC pump looks like and that is one. (one possibility I cant speak to, did OMC marinize fords? If so, I guess it could be off the old engine, but I've never seen an OMC ford)

All that aside, his pump isn't working, independent of what rotation or what pump. Do what Pete suggested. Cob up some connections and extend your intake hose and pump out of a bucket. Don't put a garden hose to your intake hose, that will prove nothing. Do bucket test. If it fails, one of two things, hoses are on the pump wrong or pump/impeller is shot. Check hoses. Contrary to what Pete said in previous post, it wont take replumbing. That pump has both in and out next to each other on the back of the pump. Its not like its top and bottom or left and right, so switching is easy (and therefore getting it wrong is probably easy too). If that doesn't help, put them back the way they were and try a new impeller. Or at least take the pump apart and look at the condition of the impeller. If you need a new one, you want an OMC 379475 or a Sierra 18-3086. If reversing hoses doesn't help and if a new impeller doesn't help. the pump is likely shot, and my experience tells me, the components are not available to rebuild it. Mine died with no visible sign of a problem. It just didn't pump any more. I replaced it with a crank mount.

EDIT: I just did a little homework and learned that OMC did do ford engines, so maybe that pump is off the old engine. But I have never heard of a ford OMC in a correct craft so I am still doubtful that pump was on his original 351.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-21-2015 at 12:17am
Thank you all very much for your input. I will pass on the info and keep you updated.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2019 at 10:38am
Brian asked me to bump this thread, he now owns this 77' and wants to get it running.
From what I understand the motor was replaced with a LH and once running it would not circulate water.
Brian should chime in soon with more info
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2019 at 1:47pm
The notes on reversing the hoses feeding the pump could be your answer.
I can tell you from personal experience if you have the hoses wrong feeding the raw water pump you will have zero coolant pumped to your engine.
Depending on the engine rotation your inlet and outlet will reverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2019 at 2:24pm
Being a Chevy it looks like the gazinta and gazouta both point down and are right next to each other. Easy to plumb bacerds (in some cases easier).

Bring a lefty, inlet should be starboard side and outlet should be port. This would be opposite what my diagram is on the RH454.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2019 at 6:09pm
Quinner thank you for bumping the thread. Hollywood & MrMcD appreciate you jumping in and offering thoughts. This is Brian under my brothers account. Can’t remember my login. Just ran by the marina and jumped the boat to make sure everything is rotating in the correct direction. That’s all good including distributor and the prop is correct. Jeff Hagstotz, mechanic at Lauderdale who knows all the old boats, verified. He has a couple concerns on other items one being since the engine was bought from a car dealer that it has the wrong cam and a nice sloppy bead of silicone around the intake manifold. Not a big deal at this point, so I need to pop out the old impeller, get a new one, trace some wires and connect a few dots. He has no time to mess around at the moment and probably not for a couple weeks. Hollywood/McD any time free I could drag this thing down for a magician to put eyes on it. This boat has a big sad ending story
behind it and I’ve been entrusted to finish the project. She’s a 1 owner boat that was in the hands of a very close friend since 1977 who unfortunately passed before this job could be completed. I honestly don’t wanna mess with anything until educated hands have touched it. I’ll buy anything it needs or you guys recommend immediately or I can get direct from PCM. Appreciate ya! My cell is 262-215-0074
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2019 at 8:56pm
If you were to take the pump out and take a picture or 2 of it, it would help identify the pump. The pictures from 2015 don't show clearly what the pump is.

A picture of it apart so the impeller and internals can be seen would be good too for figuring out where the inlet and the outlet should go for what seems to be a normal rotation engine from Quinner's description.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2019 at 12:31am
The mount looks different (parallel to belts for chevy, perpendicular to belts for ford?) but I am guessing otherwise, same pump. Assume hose configuration is the same?





And this is the impeller

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2019 at 8:09am
First on the list this morning Keno👍🏻
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2019 at 8:11am
Wow, That’s a big old impeller. Do you like the pump system as a whole 75Tique?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 75 Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2019 at 11:59am
I liked it just fine until it stopped working, After a number of diagnostic tests, I concluded the pump was shot. A rebuild was a little above my pay grade. It is a proprietary OMC pump, no longer available, so new replacement was not an option. Combing ebay led to no result. Was told Depco in florida could rebuild it, their website even had a picture of that pump in their ad that said we can fix any old pump. So I sent it to them and they sent it back saying they no longer had parts to fix that pump. I went with a crank mount replacement.

Hopefully this one is just a hose issue or an easy repair, otherwise, an alternate pump is the likely outcome. The crank mount was a quick, easy switch, just some minor plumbing adjustments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swilliams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 7:56am
These Omc pumps were handed. The impeller plates and the front housing were LH or RH. Looking closely at that pump you may find a green dot(rh) or red dot(lh) denoting rotation of pump. I see that the circulating pump may have the green decal on it. If everything matches for that engine then it is a matter of trying to chase parts down or opt for a crank driven pump. I’ve only been able to find seals, impellers and keys. I had to make new gaskets. I suggest crank driven pump and figure out the correct coolant line routing.
1976 Martinique,350 Omc. 1975 Glastron/Carlson CV16,115 Merc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 8:57am
Originally posted by DMH DMH wrote:


A few years back he repowered with a 350 w/ electronic ignition. The motors rotation is reverse of the original 351.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.




Just thought I'd point out that vacuum advance canister on the distributor.

It's saying "Get me outta here, I'm not a marine distributor, I wanna be in a car not a boat"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 9:11am
Originally posted by DMH DMH wrote:








The Arco sticker on the starter says it's a marine starter though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 10:42am
Received a few Video's on Sunday from Hollywood's Boat Yard, looks like with HW's help they got it running and squirting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 10:53am
Originally posted by quinner quinner wrote:

Received a few Video's on Sunday from Hollywood's Boat Yard, looks like with HW's help they got it running and squirting

Chris,
Does it show if they used the original RWP?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 10:58am
Originally posted by quinner quinner wrote:

Received a few Video's on Sunday from Hollywood's Boat Yard


Is that a high class place that caters to movie stars etc ?    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 11:46am
Original RWP. “In” and “out” are actually cast into the pump case. Obviously we had to swap the lines as it’s now spinning backwards. Healthy water drip coming from the pump area. Long term it’s probay a safe bet to just convert to a new crank driven unit. The coolant lines were the easy part... after some rewiring it’s running.

No J tubes on the quadrajet.

We are planning on lake testing it tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 11:59am
Marine Quadrajets don't have J tubes From the factory

It's a Holley and Holley copycat thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2019 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by quinner quinner wrote:

Received a few Video's on Sunday from Hollywood's Boat Yard


Is that a high class place that caters to movie stars etc ?    


No thats the place without a boat lift anymore but has access to a complete authorized tool box

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