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Ford 351w stutters/lurches/catches under load

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    Posted: August-19-2015 at 4:47pm
My Ford 351w starts great, idles fine, revs up fine with no load, but as soon as I get it in the water and go to get on step, past 2000 rpm everything goes to hell with it stuttering/lurching/catching up for a fraction of a second/lurching etc.

This problem started after wintering, and then in the spring, I took it in to get a "tune up" which consisted of a distributor cap and rotor, and a $500 bill (Canada is insane). In the fall on the last run, we didn't have this stuttering problem.

1. I've taken the air filter off during operation, and I can't see any fuel coming out of the secondaries.

2. I've replaced the fuel pump (it works)

3. I've checked the plug wiring sequence to the distributor cap (it's correct)

4. I've cleaned the carb, checked the bowl-to-jet line, blew out all the jets in the secondaries, everything is really clean in there.

5. Checked the linkages when the engine isn't running, and the secondaries open up as they should.

6. The carb is fairly new, and I'm having a hard time believing it's some blockage in the carb because everything seems really clean.

7. The accelerator pump is operational and working fine.

8. I've replaced the water/fuel separator filter, no water in there.

9. There's a bit of corrosion on the exterior of the distributor, don't know if that's useful information.

Please help.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 4:48pm
Also, it seems like the stuttering might start before the secondaries would be activated, but I'm not entirely sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 4:57pm
Are you sure this isn't a transmission slipping issue? Have you checked and/or topped off the fluid lately?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 5:29pm
I'm absolutely positive it's not a transmission issue just because I can replicate the issue to a smaller degree in the driveway or lake in neutral when it's hooked up to a hose at 3000 rpm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 5:30pm
I guess when I said "revs up fine" in the original post that's misleading. I can still notice the hesitation when not under load, it's just far less pronounced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 5:35pm
Secondaries dont open till much later.

If the last thing they fixed was the cap or points, i would look at them next, and un-fix them.

My first guess is point gap and or someone omitted the spring on the points
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 6:34pm
There's no gap between the points, and the spring seems pretty strong..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 6:39pm
There should be a .018 inch gap when the rubbing block is on the peak of cam lobe. If not, there's your problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 6:49pm
Here's the gap just a tiny bit before the peak. Wouldn't it never fire if the points didn't break at the peak?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

Here's the gap just a tiny bit before the peak. ]

Is the "tiny bit" .018"?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

1. I've taken the air filter off during operation, .

Please post a picture. Hopefully you don't have an air filter. If so, it's potentionally a bomb you are driving.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 9:59pm
Presumably there is a spacer I can get to measure 0.018 in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

Presumably there is a spacer I can get to measure 0.018 in?

They are called feeler gauges.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:11pm
I'm calling the round assembly that sits on top of the carb fixed with a wing nut an "air filter"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:12pm
Thanks. I'm in town now so I'll go buy some
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

I'm calling the round assembly that sits on top of the carb fixed with a wing nut an "air filter"

Flame arrestor! To be safe, please post the picture.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:30pm
Those points look pretty burnt to me. Maybe run some emory cloth thru them while you are in adjustment mode.

Also, make sure the centrifugal weights (under the points plate) are not rusted up &boyh have springs. 1 spring is supposed to be a little loose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 10:41pm
Test the resistance through the points when they're together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:05pm
the "air filter"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:37pm
Resistance through the points is ~30 ohms on the "200" ohm setting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:39pm
Time to replace the points...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:



Also, make sure the centrifugal weights (under the points plate) are not rusted up &boyh have springs. 1 spring is supposed to be a little loose.


Looks like I'm missing one of the two springs. The spring that is on there would not pull the weights back to the idle setting. They move freely, and you can advance and pull them back by rotating the shaft (just a little bit of play) but I don't see them returning to the idle position based on the resistance left in that spring. No way.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

Time to replace the points...


The points were just replaced. Less than 1hr on the engine since they've been replaced.. but I can put new ones in there. The gap between the points at the widest is 0.017in., so a little closer than what they're supposed to be.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scootdogydog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

Originally posted by scootdogydog scootdogydog wrote:

Time to replace the points...


The points were just replaced. Less than 1hr on the engine since they've been replaced.. but I can put new ones in there. The gap between the points at the widest is 0.017in., so a little closer than what they're supposed to be.


30 ohms is just a bit high, i think... maybe not the source of your problem, but between two pieces of metal that are touching, it should be under 2 ohms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-19-2015 at 11:56pm
Fair enough, it's about time I learn to do that anyway. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2015 at 7:33am
With only 1 hour on the point set, they should not be pitted like that. The arcing that causes the pitting is quenched by the capacitor. They are known to be bad out of the box. Wa a new capacitor installed with the new point set? Do try another set along with a new capacitor.
You need both springs on the advance. They control the advance curve. You auto parts store should have them or get them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2015 at 11:15am
Ski Dim sells the springs, IIRC.

After your repairs, set the timing with a timing light, to be between 8-10 deg BTDC @ 600RPM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2015 at 12:19pm
The capacitor was replaced with the points. I'll get a new tune-up kit. Won't hurt to have an extra distributor cap and rotor in the boat.

I'd like to just replace the whole distributor with a newer one with electronic ignition, but I'm worried I'll mess up the timing. There's a white mark on the wheel that you use to indicate timing (with the needle being on the block) but it's certainly not a factory mark, and I'm not sure if it would indicate top dead centre, or idle advance. I would hope it indicates top dead centre.

It is dangerous, being an amateur and trying to find TDB oneself, applying the timing tape (the "ruler"), and setting the timing oneself? Or is that something I'm just going to have to get comfortable with?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2015 at 1:05pm
It was a right of passage with us baby boomers to watch our dads or grandfather tune up the car in the fall. I also remember the stories of my dad watching his grandfather pour and scrape bearings. Someday my son will tell the story of him watching his dad checking the oil level by turning a knob on the driver information center
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2015 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

by the capacitor. They are known to be bad out of the box. .

Originally posted by hayek hayek wrote:

The capacitor was replaced with the points. I

I'd like to just replace the whole distributor with a newer one with electronic ignition,
Thanks.

Get the engine running on the point set. There's nothing wrong with them. They have worked for many many years.

When you install the points, make sure the point contact faces are parallel. There are times when bending the arm is needed. The picture of yours, show the pitting on one edge indicating the faces aren't parallel. .


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