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Cool Tool Alert - Needle scaler

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    Posted: October-17-2015 at 6:14pm
I'm sure Pete knows what this is but I had no idea this tool existed. And it's SO. COOL.

I was just cleaning up the corrosion on my hitch and this thing just blasts off the rust and scale buildup effortlessly. So fun. Probably going to hit some areas on the frame just to keep up with the corrosion here in the salt belt. Can't wait.

Looks like this in use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJRf6zrulC4

Friggin' 30 bucks at HF Needle Scaler at HF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 6:21pm
Joel,
You had better check the CFM on your air compressor!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 6:27pm
You know, not too bad as far as CFM. Certainly had my 30gal Oiled compressor cycling but the amount of work per CFM is insane. A zip here, a zip there, huge amounts of work accomplished per blast! I'd say it uses less air than my die grinder or cutoff wheel FWIW.

That said, it's time to get the big-dog compressor soon and go up to 22oV.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 7:27pm
Joel,
I remember when you were out shopping for a compressor deciding on the 30 gal. I'm glad it worked out for you. I also remember discussing the importance of the CFM rating and not the peak HP's people are being fooled into believing. Yup, 230 will be your next step. Again, watch out!! I happen to be shopping for a compressor for my shop as it's the only big item still needed. There are only 2 manufacturers in the USA that are still around making decent units. The rest are off shore and mostly Chinese. Again, look at the CFM but also the HP since many are rated using the service factor of the motor. Looking at the name plate amps of the motor then comparing that to the NEC HP/amps will tell you if the service factor is being used. I decided on a FS Curtis rated at 17.8 CFM on a 80 gal tank with a true 5 HP. The decision revolved pretty much around 3 things. It's made in the USA, all cast iron including the pistons and shipping which can be big $$$. I can buy the Curtis on line through Home Depot and then the shipping to the Rhinelander H/D will be free.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 7:53pm
Quincy's are advertised as US made
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 8:36pm
Pete- good to know. I'm not screwing around at all on the next compressor. It will be a zero compromise machine. The 30 gal was a nice warm-up exercise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Quincy's are advertised as US made

Quincy was on my list until I started looking into them farther. The advertising loophole is they are assembled in the US but use some off shore components. The compressor itself is Chinese and uses aluminum pistons. Being real up and close with 550 Hp of compressor at the plant gave me some great inside information.

Here's something I also found on Quincy's own website:
"In 2004, we expanded into Kunshan, China,"

BTW, my real first choice (Joel you'll love this with your love for German equipment) is a Kaiser 5 HP rotary screw but, $$$$$$$


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 10:06pm
In reality neither one of you need to spend more than 2K on a compressor unless your doing it for bragging rights. This little Sears of mine has sanded and painted cars,boats,tractors, run a bead cabinet and misc air tools for 21 years. The down side is the noise from high rpm direct drive. If I had to do it all over again I get a belt driven low speed one just to keep the noise down



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 10:12pm
[QUOTE=Gary S] In reality neither one of you need to spend more than 2K on a compressor unless your doing it for bragging rights. /QUOTE]
The Curtis I'm getting is below 2K.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2015 at 11:18pm
That's what I'm saying,it will last longer than you'll care about,after all we are not buying one to make money so anything above that is overkill. A friend of mine has the original compressor he bought for his body shop 32 years ago,none of us will ever work one as hard or abuse one as much. A high volume body shop is one of the dirtiest places I've ever worked in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 7:45am
Gary,
The intent of building my shop has always been to make money. If it wasn't for all the stuff from my move filling the shop, I'd have a boat in here right now. It's funny you pictured the blast cabinet because that's the main reason for my looking at a compressor. They really use the air even if you are using a very small grit media and a very small nozzle. I typically run Black Beauty blasting some pretty old rusty parts and am tired of blasting for 15 seconds and then waiting for 3 minuets for my 2 HP compressor to recover. Also, I can barely make it through a long period of time with my siphon feed spray gun. A HVLP is even worse. I'm impressed that your Sears has lasted all the years and as with my 2 HP, we are exceeding the duty cycles. Besides the blast cabinet, I'm also factoring in the possibility of 2 pneumatic demands at the same time so I don't feel the 5 HP is going past my needs. Longevity? Yes, I've always been of a mind set that going the best is better plus, I do happen to prefer buying items made in the USA. The only tool that's given up on me so far is my old Porter Cable belt sander that I got in high school! Many an hour as well as several sets of brushes in it!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

In reality neither one of you need to spend more than 2K on a compressor unless your doing it for bragging rights. This little Sears of mine has sanded and painted cars,boats,tractors, run a bead cabinet and misc air tools for 21 years. The down side is the noise from high rpm direct drive. If I had to do it all over again I get a belt driven low speed one just to keep the noise down





I completely agree Gary. This is my 20 year old Craftsman. I have run an angle grinder to port two sets of heads where this compressor has run for an hour or longer without shutting off. I also have a blast cabinet identical to yours that taxes it pretty hard.
It is definitely loud and my only complaint. I have to wear ear protection when using it but it has never failed me when I have clearly abused the crap out of it.
The only maintenance I have ever done to it is replace the tank drain O-ring one time.
Total cost $299.



When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mark c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 9:14am
How are you running a 6HP compressor off of a 120V receptacle?

Also if anyone was ever in the Navy they would recognize a needle scaler in the dark, blindfolded with mittens on. Think they issue you one when you check onto a skimmer. After all if it doesn't move it needs to be repainted every couple of days. Spent many a day in the boiler room of a destroyer with one of these bad boys, going deaf, and getting numb hands chipping paint from bilges and frame member under the boilers. Ah the good old days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 9:25am
Originally posted by mark c mark c wrote:

How are you running a 6HP compressor off of a 120V receptacle? .

He's not!!
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Joel,
I remember when you were out shopping for a compressor deciding on the 30 gal. I'm glad it worked out for you. I also remember discussing the importance of the CFM rating and not the peak HP's people are being fooled into believing..

The HP's are all BS on the import home center compressors and the reason you need to be very careful


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by mark c mark c wrote:

How are you running a 6HP compressor off of a 120V receptacle? .

He's not!!
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Joel,
I remember when you were out shopping for a compressor deciding on the 30 gal. I'm glad it worked out for you. I also remember discussing the importance of the CFM rating and not the peak HP's people are being fooled into believing..

The HP's are all BS on the import home center compressors and the reason you need to be very careful


LOL.....I had three requirements at the time. It had to be at least 30 gallon and 120V and be portable. I bought it, plugged it in and used it. I could care less how much HP it says it has or how much it realistically has or how much CFM it's running. It's done everything I've asked of it without failure. Even if it completely self destructs tomorrow, it's paid for itself 100 times over. I hope you can say the same thing for your compressor 20 years from now.

When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 9:20pm
Regarding buying a "Real" version of an air compressor- buying "nice" versions of tools is a about a lot more than longevity. A high-quality tool is generally so much nicer to use every time you use it (have fun with that one guys). Seriously- if it's a tool that I'm planning on using even slightly more than occasionally, I'm buying the "real" version of the tool. I'm not buying some throw away circ saw, I have a Ridgid worm drive. Dewalt XRP cordless drill and recip, IR impact, Deere mower, etc. A real version of a given tool is one of the most rewarding purchases you can make. I just bought a nice Sthil chainsaw this summer and it's a friggin' joy to use and own. Worth the extra cash. Quality pays you back every time you use the item.

...Coming from the guy who started the thread about a 30.00 HF tool, of course, but that's not something I'll use often so thank goodness for the cheap version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2015 at 11:11pm
Well your young enough to buy a good tool and it will last you as long as you need it. I have maybe 20 years to go and my son has a -50 interest in getting his hands dirty. Some things hardly get used anymore not really worth it to buy the most expensive and best version when a Harbor Freight one will do the job. I see no positive gain in selling my stuff at a garage sale for 20 cents on the dollar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 8:18am
Gentlemen,

Champion Compressors ( AKA Gardner Denver, Inc. ) are USA made right there in Princeton, Illinois.

Curtis got purchased by the FS folks in China several years ago. The FS stands for Fu Sheng and they are out of Shanghai China.

Quincy got purchased buy the Atlas Copco folks in Europe.

IR's T-Series Pumps ( Pistons) are built in India.

Champion got purchased by Gardner Denver of Quincy, IL in the late 1980's. Gardner Denver is currently based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, but the Air Compressor Division is based in Quincy, IL.

7.5 HP is the largest you can run on single phase power and you are getting about 4 to to 5 CFM per horse power on average. You can run a Duplex with two 7.5 HP units on one tank and get 15 HP on single phase power.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 9:17am
Donald,
Wow! Thanks for the information. It sure sounds like you have done the research and I need to do more. Wanting to stick with a USA compressor, I'll need to rethink what to buy.

BTW, single phase motors are available up to 15 HP. beyond that it's common to utilize a VFD with single phase input running a 3 phase induction motor plus there are still some repulsive inductions still around but big $$$.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 10:30am
Petey, maybe you should get a heated compressor, it would allow you to blow even more hot air then you do now!! ;)

My craftsman 3hp/30gal (220v) is over 30 years old, only issue is the tank rusted thru, haven't decided if I should toss it or get the tank welded up.
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Qunner- LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 10:49am
Originally posted by quinner quinner wrote:

Petey, maybe you should get a heated compressor, it would allow you to blow even more hot air then you do now!! ;)


No hot air from my compressor! Here's the brazed plate heat exchanger I built up for the after cooler on the compressor. I decided to go water cooled since I didn't want to add to all that hot air. Per my calculations, it will use .3 gal. GPM of nice cold well water whenever the compressor is running.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 11:23am
But with that Holley mounted on it Pete I'd be more concerned with fuel consumption than water usage!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by mark c mark c wrote:


Also if anyone was ever in the Navy they would recognize a needle scaler in the dark, blindfolded with mittens on. Think they issue you one when you check onto a skimmer. After all if it doesn't move it needs to be repainted every couple of days. Spent many a day in the boiler room of a destroyer with one of these bad boys, going deaf, and getting numb hands chipping paint from bilges and frame member under the boilers. Ah the good old days.


Ha! That was my first thought/flashback. And they don't just pass those out on targets ... I mean skimmers.
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Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

But with that Holley mounted on it Pete I'd be more concerned with fuel consumption than water usage!   

Wait until I get the turbo hooked up!   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 7:47pm
Pete that plate exchanger is a great idea.. Why dont you use a smaller compressor for avg needs with a gas powered larger compressor for blasting and needle guns . it seems like people buy more electric than they will use 80% of the time and the other 20% it feels like you never have enough compared to the gas powered ones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 8:02pm
Nice exchanger Pete. I normally just drop an extra 100' of air hose in a trash can full of water when painting. From there to the water separator and the results have been quite good. When I retire I will rig up something cool like you did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by peter1234 peter1234 wrote:

Pete that plate exchanger is a great idea.. Why dont you use a smaller compressor for avg needs with a gas powered larger compressor for blasting and needle guns . it seems like people buy more electric than they will use 80% of the time and the other 20% it feels like you never have enough compared to the gas powered ones

Peter,
The concept of having both a small and a large displacement compressor sounds good but I don't feel is a solution. The way it works is when you have a small demand on a large compressor, it just runs less time. Then there's the cost as well as maintenance on two compressors.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

Nice exchanger Pete. I normally just drop an extra 100' of air hose in a trash can full of water when painting. From there to the water separator and the results have been quite good. .

John,
Excellent idea! Isn't there a saying about necessity being the mother of invention?   

The brazed plate will be wall mounted higher than the tank so condensation will drain into the tank where an auto condensate dump off the bottom of the tank will go to drain. Thankfully I thought ahead when I built the shop and had a floor drain installed in the utility room. I have a friend who didn't and had to run the drain hose through a hole in the wall. It freezes in the winter!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2015 at 10:00pm
Funny how being thousands of miles apart we come up with the same ideas. I have one of those hooded fresh air systems. It comes with two 40' foot 1" hose sections. The first time I used it I only used one section of hose,it was unbearably hot. I called the company they told me you need to use both sections to keep the temp down,which in fact it did. When I painted the Shamrock in dead of summer I took the one 40' section of hose put it in a plastic tub of water then took another tub and put it on top of the hose and filled it with water to keep the hose fully submerged. Worked great and actually heated the water in the tub until it was too hot to keep your hand in.
You know Pete when you get your house done and all your wife's stuff out of your shop you need to host a CCF event so we get to see your setup and terrorize your lake---
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