1964 ski Nautique project |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan,
Post a picture of the hair line cracks. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5696 |
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Those little cracks that go through all the way down to the glass are likely to telegraph back through the new gel. You are going to need to cover them with some glass – I would probably go with a thin surfacing veil mat. I would consider vinylester for this layer, I know the layer is going to add time, cost and work but minimal comparted to what else you have done. That will also fill in the little voids to a reasonable extent. This needs to go under your fairing efforts.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan,
As long as the puddled gel at the chine is sound, I'd leave it fair and just go over it. There's plenty of glass behind it for strength. How much old gel is in good shape? I'd be inclined to remove it as well. The old gels aren't what they are today and I'd hate to see problems pop up later. |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Tim, I'll take some measuments tonight. The 1975 brochure shows it listed, and one of the trailers in the picture looks similar, but it's hard to tell.. Seems like it's about 55" at the back of the bunks if I remember correctly.
Pete, there are some definite voids that will have to be addressed, but mostly just those small bubbles. There's still a ton to do, but the tool of choice thus far has been a 36 grit pad on a 7" grinder. I grind carefully until the sandpaper just barely starts to "kiss" the glass, and then switch to a long board or in line sander depending on the contour. By and large everything is staying very smooth and fair. One issue is that there are certain places along the chine where the gelcoat ran down the mold and puddled. I'm just leaving these til later when plan I'll probably grind them out individually and fair them with the surrounding glass. I'm trying to spend more time at this stage, because it will probably save me time on the back end.. Is it imperative to take it to bare glass even where the old gelcoat is in good shape? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan,
Your picture doesn't show real large pockets in the original layup so I wouldn't be too worried. I'd suggest a coat or two of vinyl ester resin. It will get into the voids. You don't want to use an epoxy resin since the gel being polyester doesn't adhere well to epoxy. The alternate is epoxy first, vinyl ester second and then the gel. How fair did you get the hull? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
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Take a few measurements of the bunks on that trailer and I'll compare it to my #3 and #4dv. I didn't think that there was such a thing as a non-dv #4, but that sure seems to be what we're looking at. The dv keeps the bunks parallel so as not to cross the strakes on a deep vee hull... This causes loading issues for a flat bottom boat. I would guess you're probably OK since these bunks clearly taper- but let's confirm.
On a side note, I know of someone who would probably swap a #3 for that #4... So perhaps we should discuss! |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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The second question is concerning this fine specimen of a trailer. The boat came with, but not on this cc trailer. The number on the id plate is 4-324 manufactured in 7/70. I understand the 3# to be the correct trailer for the boat, but is this trailer worth refurbishing in the mean time? It used to be home to a wildcat, which probably explains the po added structure.
Thanks in advance! |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Ok, some more questions for the geniuses of CCfan..
While removing the gelcoat back to bare fiberglass, a ton of these little “pockets” have shown up in the old layup directly under the gelcoat. Is filling them all with fairing compound during that process a reasonable solution or is there a better procedure? The more concerning issue is all of the hair line cracks that matched up with the cracks in the gelcoat. They are the lighter colored lines you see everywhere. (Literally thousands) There really isn’t any discernible crack you can feel, it just somewhat scary considering the time invested in this hull so far. They are really only near the water line as well which is incidentally where the gelcoat is the thickest. Id have to check, but it seems like Cbass put a layer of cloth/mat(?) on the bottom of his for extra insurance against cracks? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Last time I used Mini Craft they made the whole process difficult,good luck with them ,it's worth a try maybe I got a hold of someone on a bad day. I have some pictures of the boat Art cares for, I will post them tomorrow.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan, See if one of Mini-Craft of Florida has a standard gel color |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Thanks for the pictures guys, they sure help alot!
I picked up a old morse throttle/shift control from the boneyard this weekend just in case, but definitely prefer the dash shifter. Hadn't really thought of how awkward the split arrangement would be until it was just mentioned. It looks like the boat came with the hand throttle... All this is definitely something to think about. The boat is upside down right now and bunch of the gel is in the form of dust coating everything in my shop. Ill try to post a picture of the frame I used to flip the boat later this week. At this point the tentative plan is solid turquoise top and bottom with a white boot stripe, white seats with turquoise piping to set it off. Does anyone know of a good way to match the color other than trial and error? |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Hi Ethan, I have a 1960 Atom. Similar circumstances in regards the throttle. I found the Morse throttle mounted on the gunnel was to busy combined with the shifter lever on the column. Original was long gone but had been foot. I have been installing the teleflex cable system with a non original foot petal and I think operation will be much more user friendly.
Go for it. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan, I agree with Phil. As suggested, see if you can find a foot throttle. |
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70CC
Senior Member Joined: June-12-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 338 |
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Ethan, Looks like you're making great progress!
I would say the bulkhead mounted pylon is correct. Steve can correct me, but I don't think his Dad's boat has a bulkhead which is why the mount is glassed to the bottom of the floor. I'm going to guess your boat was made at a later time when CC added the bulkhead. Does anyone know if Art's boat has a bulkhead? As far as I can tell, the front floor section and seats are really unique in the Kutsch boat. Most that I have seen have a bench seat and under the seat is a large cut-out to access the battery. I'm attaching pics from Skeeter's 64 below so you can see the seat base construction and battery access that I believe is correct and more typical. Since you don't have the original hand throttle, I'm assuming your boat was set up like mine, I'd suggest going with the foot throttle as it should be a lot easier to find one and I think it will be more functional. I am not looking forward to low speed maneuvering (like docking) with a shift on the dash and throttle only on the side both operated by the same hand. Seems like a clumsy set-up, -Phil |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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There was never any foam put in this boat. Here is another picture of further up in the bow, you can see the rod going to the lifting ring, but I don't have any pictures showing where it attaches to the bottom of the hull, the point where it sounds like you found foam in yours.. |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Wow I didn't realize it went up that high. Does that boat have a mound of foam poured haphazardly around the lift rod as well?
There was a scrap of one main stringer that had a angled section, but I assumed it leveled back out like the later models. I was planning on pouring foam in that whole area up to the bow and then shaping it flat with a slight slope back towards the cockpit. It seems that's how Tims skier is. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4240 |
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That's all that is in my '63 Skier, angled footboard. No hinges, it's fixed.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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I don't remember exactly, but I believe there is just a foot board that is at an angle. It is screwed into the floor (or maybe even on hinges) and then is just supported at the top by the side of the hull. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures... Just this one which shows the top of the foot board resting on the sides of the hull.
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Almost done fitting the floor. Haven't deciding what is going to happen under the fore deck as it was just a mass of foam.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I've seen them come up, but like anything unusual, you got to be in the right place at the right time. Let it be known that you're looking for one. We've got several members that seem to be extremely good at finding stuff when it comes up.
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Pete, everything has cpes with the exception of the top of the plywood as you noted. I cpes ed the bottom and edges and then covered it with a layer of glass before bedding it to the stringers.
There was no evidence of a hot foot, but there wasn't much left of anything frankly. It does seem like the boat may have come with the ski group option as it has a factory tracking fin and the old mounting plate for the throttle looks factory. Thanks Bruce, I guess flea Bay would be the best option for that? |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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There was a single lever Morse throttle that was available on the early boats and I would guess that may be what you had. They are referred to in the reference section.
As odd as that upside down fuel pump looks, I can't see anyway that it could be mounted or put together backwards. There's one with the bottom bowl on ebay now. Edit: the fuel pump is no longer listed, but I think it was the same guy with the very high priced carb set up. You may want to contact him if your looking for one. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan,
Have you been any CPES on the wood? The ply sole doesn't look like there's anything on it. How about the bottom of the ply? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ethan,
With a shift on the dash, the typical accelerator is a foot pedal. I'd go at least two layers of biax over the log. Three would be better. With each layer, go progressively bigger. That shift or throttle looks like it's from a 50's outboard. Was it installed in lieu of a foot pedal? Is there any evidence of a foot pedal? |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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The main # on mine is MO-1521 with 3495s being stamped into the mounting boss edge.
Id be interested in the other style if this one dies at some point in the future. The only place I could find that makes the rebuild kit was Then and now automotive. carter rebuild They are really helpful! I havent uploaded many pics because stringer rebuilds are so well documented, but here is where things stand right now.. I need to grind more out of the bilge in preparation for fairing gel. How many layers of biax should I run over the shaft log? its bedded with milled fiber/epoxy and has one layer now. Does anyone know what this is from and what I should have instead? My gear shift is on the dash so I just need throttle for what thats worth. The mounting paraphernalia for the original setup is still behind the mounting area. |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1411 |
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Well, I just dug out the manual and the engine pictures do in fact show the pump sitting with the bowl up however, there are two pumps listed in the parts section. My 312 is under wraps down in the boat house so I'll need to get down there and take a look. I know it's a Carter but I want to see if I can get a part # off it see which one I have. I did put a rebuild kit in it several years ago but couldn't find the paper work that may have shown which pump mine is but, there's a possibility that both pumps would use the same kit. Visually both look the same so I'll see if I can find out what the difference is.
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4240 |
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I wonder if you shut off the fuel and run it dry if the bowl empties by gravity. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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Thanks for all the links Tim, I just read them all!
Looking forward to seeing that skier! |
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Eether
Groupie Joined: October-20-2015 Location: Greenville Status: Offline Points: 64 |
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I don't know Pete, that's what I thought but it was like that when I got it and I'm not sure how it could be flipped and be still be actuated by the cam concentric. Fwiw I was looking at and old "jimmy" six cylinder in my dad's shop and the pump was mounted the same way. What are the casting numbers on yours?
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