Trailer rehab - questions |
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MurphyCO
Senior Member Joined: December-15-2015 Location: Murphy NC Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: December-29-2015 at 5:47pm |
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Along with fixing up my 99 Air Nautique, I need to do some work to the trailer. To pull it home, we replaced some lights, and installed a new swing jack. When we got it home we replaced the carpet on the fenderwells. I purchased a set of wheel dollies from Summit racing (the ones from Harbor Frieght collapsed, literally) and now I can push the boat around in the garage nicely.
Here are my questions, hopefully I can get a few answers to save time and $4. I believe the trailer is a Ramlin, but the VIN is illegible. Single axle, equipped with drum brakes. They have been disconnected, and a new non-surge coupler installed. Should I install disc brakes with a new surge coupler? And stay with surge rather than electric over hydraulic control? Or should I just repair the drum brakes and replace the surge coupler? I might consider a fold away tongue coupler to help with garage storage. I understand that surge brakes are just fine for level travel, but my boat trailering will be on pretty steep grades, although I won't be trailering very often. Are surge brake systems fairly easy to install? By that I mean easy to adjust, bleed, etc. Are they pretty much plug and play? I can certainly handle the install, but would hate to spend 700-800 on parts and the brakes not work at all. Is there a way to get a paint match for the trailer? Would like to touch up the rust places. On one of the other posts about trailer rehab I read that a roller guide was installed to help protect the prop and shaft. They have some of those at Etrailer. The group seemed to think adding one of those would help protect the prop. Couldn't see where it was installed but I'm assuming towards the center to keep everything aligned as you power on? Any advice would be appreciated and I'll dance at your next wedding. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Gary,
Trailer surge brakes are relatively inexpensive so I would suggest replacing at least the backing plate with the cylinders and shoes. The drums are most likely still good. Then you will need the surge coupler. Bleeding is done just like a car but a bleeding pump found at the auto supply makes it a one man job. I'm sure it will come with instructions just in case you haven't done a brake bleed before. Electric is an option but then the complete wheel assembly would need changing plus the controller and wiring of the tow vehicle. The roller guides are welded or bolted onto the prop guard on the trailer. Unless you have curbs to go over, they aren't needed. Check the level of your trailer. Maybe the tongue needs to be dropped by lowering the ball mount? On the touch up paint, hopefully another member has the code. Is the trailer a 99 as well? |
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MurphyCO
Senior Member Joined: December-15-2015 Location: Murphy NC Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Thanks for the advice, I have used a bleeder before as my uncle taught me years ago. I'm guessing the surge hitch will come with instruction about fill level for the fluid, etc?
I do believe the trailer is a 99 also, original with the boat. I think anyway. I might consider changing to discs on the brakes but if not I will certainly replace the drum plates as well. Trailer has suffered some neglect, as has the boat. The guy who sold it to me loaded and unloaded it with no fender protection on one side! Risking damage to the hull over $10 worth of plywood and carpet and a few minutes work. I took care of that as soon as I got home. I don't have curbs to bounce over, so I guess the roller wouldn''t be necessary? Boat sits pretty level hooked to the truck(s) I use to tow, so the drop seems to be ok. Hope someone does have the paint code, that would rock. |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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I did what you are considering on my 91 BFN (Excel) trailer. Everything I had was bad and need replacement. So, it was cheaper to get a complete disk system than replace the drums and parts peice-meal. The entire hub assembly will be changed when you go to discs. So, you get an all new hub, race, bearings, brakes, lugs, etc.. Brake hoses connect up well at the axle to the drum set up.
Coupler is a straightforward replacement and a great time to do swing-away tongue. I did that with my trailer as I wanter a longer tongue and still be able to put it in the garage. This was my VIN trailer adventure...... Trailer VIN POST linky BTW - Electric brakes are finicky on a boat trailer. Disc and drum perform about the same. I think disc maintanance is easier and popping out a stripped lug out of a disc hub is a lot easier than a drum (don't ask). |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Oh yeah, most of our '90 and 2000 era boats sit SLIGHTLY nose down on the trailer connected up to the truck. The owner's manual will dictate ball height. (see reference section if you don't have yours)
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve, What problems are you referring to? I put electrics on my X55 trailer over 30 years ago and have never had a single problem. |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Heck Pete at that rate I'd get 30 years too. |
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1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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That's great Pete. You are very fortunate and I wish all folks with electric brakes on boat trailers had your success. In Virginia, trailers/load totalling over 16 feet in length are required to have battery backup as a failsafe redundency (similar to our break away leashes on the couplers). Dipping batteries, and electrical actuator components in water tends to make for a "finicky" setup. I have seen my share of rusted batteries and boxes, solenoids that don't work and corrosion issues. I didn't say they didn't work.......but I think there's a reason that most boat trailer manufacturers have generally stayed away from electric and are migrating to disc.... but it's good to know of an electric setup that works so well for so long. Etrailer is a great place to get parts, blazing fast shipping and terrific customer service. |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Were electric brakes original to the X55 trailer? or is that a Mod? Is there a battery box and actuator on the frame as backup for safety? How did they handle that issue 30+ years ago? Very interesting, wanna know more................ |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve, The trailer under the X is a old Stars and Stripes MC trailer that was jack knifed. I picked it up for $100, welded on a new frame forward of the first cross member, straightened the rest of the frame and installed new springs as well as the brakes. It originally had the fiberglass belly pan/fenders but it was too far gone so I ended fabricating new fenders and running boards from aluminum diamond plate. Back then backup batteries and actuators on the trailer weren't required so it got the tow vehicle brake controller connected to the vehicle brakes. Wiring has never been a problem since I wired the brakes just like I do the lighting. Soldered connections and heat shrink tubing over the connection. |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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I feel ya Pete. Soldering lighting connections are the way to go! Saves sooooooo much heartache down the road........
Can you email me some pics of the X? Sounds neat from many aspects............ |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Gary - look at the complete disc "kits". I really like mine and they help significantly in snow/ice and on steep grades. My only issue was on the hubs I needed on the Excel trailer, the dust caps are a bit of a unique size..... made getting at the axle zerks with replacement dustcaps a little challenging finding a "non-standard" size.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve, An added benefit of having electric brakes with the controller in the tow vehicle is the ability to manually activate the trailer brakes. It applies more to trailers being towed on icy or snow covered roads rather than boat trailers but, I did need to use it once. If, the trailer starts to fish tail, applying the trailer brakes manually will straighten out the trailer recovering from the fish tail. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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Back to the original question...
I would recommend keeping things simple and going back with the surge drum brakes. They're very simple and much more cost effective than converting to disks. If your hub/drums are good (just need new bearings and seals), and lines are clear, you're half way there. The brake assemblies can be replaced for ~$80/ea or refurb'd for less if you have the time and inclination. Coupler will probably run about $200. Bleeding is likely a 2 person job but very easy. I can't speak to relative effectiveness on long, steep grades vs disks or electric, but they definitely work effectively and are easy to maintain. We have some pretty hilly terrain here, and we tow with mid size SUV's, so they're definitely nice to have. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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sport1999
Senior Member Joined: May-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 313 |
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I looked back at your previous thread and I would guess you actually have a Prestige trailer. The Prestige would have a torsion axle and Ramlin leaf springs. Take a few pictures if you make a repair.
Prestige |
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MurphyCO
Senior Member Joined: December-15-2015 Location: Murphy NC Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Your Prestige trailer looks an awful lot like mine! I'll shoot some pictures on Friday when I get back to the lake, but you may be correct and the trailer is a Prestige.
I know the carpeted fender liners are spot on from the photos. I replaced both of them as soon as I got the boat home. You can do some significant damage to the hull without them, as the edge of the fender is sharp. I do recall the brake line terminated near the tongue with a snap in fitting, like an air hose, which seemed a little strange to me. Don't know why you would be disconnecting a brake line? Since Prestige is out of business I guess there is no getting the paint color? Thanks for all the input, I will shoot some photos on Friday. Happy New Year. |
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sport1999
Senior Member Joined: May-10-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 313 |
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I had to learn this the hard way. I added lock nuts and new bolts to the fender liners to ensure they do not come loose again.
My trailer has the same termination and no working surge brakes. The tongue was replaced, so I am not sure how everything was originally constructed. Would be interested in learning more about a repair. Good luck |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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My friends work cheap, Pete... 5 min of their time doesn't cost much. I can buy a lot of beer for $200! Maybe someday when I'm rich and famous... |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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In the meantime timmy I bet your Austin powers Swedish made weenie enlarging pump could serve double duty as a brake bleeder.
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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I like the ad - "Do the Job right"........ 3/5 Stars (well 1/2 way right, anyway) Psssst Tim - its $30.00 ......... I know some of your friends, they drink more than $30.00 in beer! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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That's not mine baby!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ether Tim used the wrong link or he needs to make an appointment with the eye doc!! |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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I think maybe Quinner is right, and Tim is going blind cuz of it........... just sayin'. |
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MurphyCO
Senior Member Joined: December-15-2015 Location: Murphy NC Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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When soldering connections, do you use a crimp connector and then solder and heat shrink over? I am replacing my bilge blower and thought I would connect the old plug connection to the bare wires on the replacement so it could be removed again if necessary.
Thanks |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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Bare wire to bare wire Western Union splice, soldered and seperate wire shrink-wrap. You can electrical tape over the top if you want to keep it all together.... but generally, no shrink over shrink........
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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If you do use a crimp connection (sta-con) the best out there are the ones with the adhesive lined heat shrink. There are also crimp on's that have solder in them. Heating them with the heat gun melts the solder and shrinks the heat shrink.
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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The ones Pete mentions are the current marine industry standard. Splice and solder is overkill (and may be difficult in tight spots) but eliminates a source of corrostion and voltage drop. |
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MurphyCO
Senior Member Joined: December-15-2015 Location: Murphy NC Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Hydraulic quick connects are used on removable or swing away tongues. |
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