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Engine break-in

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Orlando76 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Engine break-in
    Posted: February-06-2016 at 2:58pm
This will probably open a can of worms. Rebuilt motor. I did initial break in as per builders specs (first :20). All checked out good. Not much was specified on how to drive afterwards other than don't let it idle for extended period of time. My thoughts were to give medium acceleration to close to WOT for 45 seconds , back off to 24 mph or so for a few minutes, accelerate to near WOT again and so on. Constantly varying speeds for a few hours. Never punching. And plan on skiing after 5 hours or so if all goes well. I don't think skiing will matter much but the rpm profile doesn't seem to match the normal though process for break in. Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backfoot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2016 at 11:00am
You are correct sir. A can of worms is putting it mildly.

Varying RPM is good. WOT is fine too but limit it to 10-15 seconds. Don't be afraid to hammer it either for short bursts. After an hour or two, drive it like you stole it.
When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2016 at 5:56pm
On your brand new engine take it easy for the first hour. Check for leaks frequently.
Boats are under a lot of load all the time unlike a car engine so make sure your tune is perfect before driving it harder. If you are pinging check the timing and verify it is correct both at idle and at 3,500 RPM. at 3,500 it should be around 34 degree's.
This is important because at 34 ( maybe as much as 36) you make good power and run great, if it is at 37-39 you will make the cylinders run hot and detonation will start causing damage. You don't want that.
Verify there are no vacuum leaks that could lean out your fuel mix. If it is idling well in gear that is a good sign the vacuum is sealed in your engine.
If timing is too high it is possible to ruin a new engine on your first hard acceleration.
Once verified that timing is good I agree with the above go out and enjoy your new engine.   Just don't allow it to get hot.
If it is running rough park it till you figure things out. Pay attention to noises, all should be normal.. Power should be good and smooth.
Sounds like you are getting ready for a great summer of use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DayTony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2016 at 2:47am
on top of what was mentioned I would like to add. Change your oil.
Even though initial break in was done and oil was changed before you probably took delivery. Its important to keep good clean oil in it. Some break in and assembly lube could still be running through the system after those first couple to dozen uses depending on hours of use.
I feel it is Important to flush that out after the fact and start fresh.
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JoeinNY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2016 at 11:13am
This is what I said in 2009 ... I tend to do more like 10-12 hard runs right out of the gate these days.

The main thing about the first 20 minutes is breaking in the cam. You should have good zddp rich oil in that thing, dinosaur based not synthetic, you should obtain if possible GM EOS (engine oil supplement) it should be on the shelf at any GM dealer still in business, two cans one for the first and one for the second oil change. Then you should start (with as little cranking as possible so make sure she is primed and ready) and go immediately to 2000 rpm. This is to make sure you get adequate splash oiling up to the cam. This should be in water if possible, but very important is to keep the boat level if on the trailer cause if the oil level is not high enough for the splashing then well... I also tend to go a little heavy on the oil level here usually 5 quarts instead of the 4.5 but dont get crazy.

Don't futz with the timing, idle mix, or other at this point its all about the cam. Now you really dont want the rings running at a constant speed at this point so that is why the 1500 to 2500 range change the speed every minute or so to a different speed that is still in that range.

After the 20 I slow it down, adjust timing, idle, ect. and I go give her a little lake run, no crazy speeds no crazy loads yet, while looking for small leaks etc that werent obvious.. if shes running good shut her down remove and replace oil and filter.

Cam is now broken in, still on the dino oil and EOS if you got it, the next 4 hours I work on the rings. Very next ride once that bad boy idles in gear up to temperature and oil pressure (you have been watching the guages right) stability I get right on it (better not have been agressive in your timing setup yet). My goal is to give her a solid 5 to 10 idle speed to full throttle runs, with a full throttle back to idle drop after about 15 secs of full throttle. Even the hard drop is important so dont coast back down. In between each one left everything settle again while moving at idle speed. That should be a fun half hour. The next 3.5 spend no more than a couple minutes at any consistant speed and no heavy loads (a few more head snaping runs might find their way in here). Change oil and filter... can move to ssynthetic now you like, everything but sustanined high speeds up to ten hours, then I run her like I stole her...

your mileage may vary...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2016 at 12:42pm
Joe,

That is a wonderful description of how to break in a marine engine. I've never seen it so perfectly spelled out....from oil type, to rationale (all about those flat tapped camshafts). We ought to make that a "sticky".

I've been breaking in engines of all kinds using Dino oil before switching to full synthetic since learning of a similar routine from a power plant course instructor in A&P school many years ago. This instructor, an engineer with a doctorate in mechanical engineering (didn't even know there was such a degree) did consulting work for a major lubricant OEM and helped convince the FAA to extend major mechanical overhaul service intervals for flight training schools where engines were operated on synthetic motor oils-- reducing operating costs significantly for these schools at a time when aviation fuel was doubling in cost. We as students participated in the study and got to witness first-hand the differences between a single viscosity Dino oil as compared to full synthetic under a simulated, 2000 hour engine cycle test that was supposed to duplicate the typical touch-and-go thermal and load cycling environment. We were able to witness measurable differences in engine component wear.

One really interesting exercise we did after the tests were complete--- we performed an ignition timing experiment to simulate the way way too much advance causes engine failure. We discovered what was clearly already known--that the preignition causes huge connecting rod loads that cause the bearing inserts in the crankshaft journals to "bow" inwards, then turn in their journals, blocking the oil passageways, melting them into puddles in the crankcase before game over and catastrophic failure of the rod journal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-18-2016 at 12:50pm
Joe, thanks for to chiming in on this process. We all know you describe it better than any of us internet mechanics (myself included).

I followed most of this process on my 78 302 and the 84 351 rebuilds. Both times I ran 20 minutes at 2000 RPM's, changed oil and then went to the lake for a few hours. Both times I ran pretty hard a varied speeds the first few hours but didn't know about or follow the the idle-WOT'engine brake process.

Joe helped us break-in the Promo's new 340 at Reid's house a few years back and guided us through this process. This part was very foreign and somewhat nerve wracking to me but I fully trusted his expertise and we had a blast beating on the boat for a few hours. Although I've been pretty hard on my rebuilds I had to fight my cautious instincts a bit.

I'll see if I can get a video from that day posted. Good luck! Post some videos for all us northerns. Still 14" of ice here in Iowa!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2016 at 6:13pm
Modern Moly faced piston rings break in easily if the engine is honed properly.
By a professional, not with a drill driven hand held hone. The hand hones do more damage than help.
I worked with several Dyno owners. They say the blow by on a new engine usually seals up after one dyno pull.   These are not jam it to full throttle dyno pulls but they take it up easy to 3,000 and then roll on the throttle till wide open RPM is reached and back off quickly but not jerking back on the throttle.
Less stress internally this way.   These guys built over 1,500 engines a month and have to warranty them so I trust this type break in.   Your boat in the water will act exactly like a dyno pull.   Very similar loading of the engine. I would back off once top RPM is reached, no reason to keep hammering. It will break in and work very well for you.
If you chose to run the old technology Cast Iron faced piston rings the multiple acceleration technique may be necessary.
The Moly Technology has been world class since 1990 and is much kinder to your cylinder walls for a much extended life of your block. There are no negatives, I would run Moly Rings in any gas engine today if possible.
On a new engine Heat is your biggest killer, watch the gauges closely and don't let it get hot for any reason. If it is getting hot find the solution before proceeding.
Not usually an issue with boats as you have constant cooling water available.
In Fel-Pro's engineering labs we tested detonation pressure in engines.
Detonation happens when you run too low of octane or too much timing.
A Chevy 350 bone stock making about 290 HP at wide open throttle was making just over 600 pounds cylinder pressure running at its rated RPM for max horsepower with 36 degrees timing.
By advancing the timing 2 degrees to 38 total timing the cylinder pressure jumped to 900 PSI and then to over 3,000 PSI as the cylinder temps went up due to excess timing and detonation started. This type pressure can stretch the head bolts and allow the explosion to blow between cylinders burning out your head gasket.
Detonation happens when cylinder temps rise, as temperature goes up parts of the head or piston may start to glow red, this glowing red metal will act like a spark plug and set off your explosion but it does it prior to your spark plug igniting. Cylinder temps are not the same as water temp, you can overheat a cylinder without running high water temps. So one flame front starts due to the hot spot exploding the fuel air mix much prior to the spark plug igniting. This early explosion in a cylinder happens as the piston is still coming up with 7 other pistons pushing it. The piston pushing up against the early explosion creates excessive pressure in that cylinder.   Sometimes this can happen with two flame fronts colliding if the spark plug ignites your fuel mix on one side and a hot spot ignites the fuel on the other side the burn can start swirling in the chamber and it creates a torch effect that can melt a hole right through the piston or even between cylinders.
At anything much over 600 PSI your internal parts are in danger. At 3,000 PSI you will be stretching head bolts, blowing gaskets, fracturing piston rings and pounding out rod bearings. In severe cases of detonation I have seen pistons fracture.
Good reason to always make sure your timing is set at a safe number for your engine.
The safe number is unique for every engine.
A older GM stock 350 will usually accept 34-36 degrees on regular fuel.
Put newer GM Vortec heads on that same engine and it will like a much lower number like 28 degrees timing.   The head design affects how fast the fuel burns.
If you add compression on your overhaul make sure your timing curve and fuel match the new engines compression. It may need an upgrade from regular fuel to premium fuel. You may even have to richen the fuel supply to match your new compression.
Just a few things to think about. When a buddy says to advance the timing to add a little more pop think twice about it, do some reading and know what a safe timing is for your engine and set up.
A lean burn can cause all the above also, an intake manifold gasket not sealing properly is one cause. Usually if you have strong vacuum at idle you can rule this out.
Sorry to be so wordy but new engines are a lot of fun as long as you work within known boundaries. Hope this helps.

Edit: I should have noted, the timing numbers quoted are full advance timing numbers.
Rev your engine to 3,500 RPM and see what your timing is. At this RPM you measure what is known as Total Timing or All In timing. This is your important number to avoid engine damage. Your initial timing setting at idle is not nearly as important as what happens at 3,500 RPM. Timing lights are available to allow you to check timing at high RPM. If your distributor is rusty or the internal springs are broken or weak you might need to fix or replace your distributor to have both a good idle quality and a safe High RPM Timing setting.
Known as Set Back Timing lights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orlando76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2016 at 9:15am
Good info Mark, your knowledge on engine builds is superior. I've only been able to put 1.5 hours on motor driving it similar as been described here. Past 2-3 weeks have been 20 mph winds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2016 at 3:35pm
If your at 1.5 hours use and all is good I know what I would do. Throw out a Rope and yell hit it. Once your winds die down.
Thanks for you kind works I admit to having experience inside an engine but very little outside the engine so this forum has helped me more than I have been able to help the forum. This is a great place to work through keeping these boats on the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2016 at 12:26pm
MrMcD, Very good and accurate post. Let me add to that: Guys this stuff happens alot quicker than you might think. To much timing, cylinder pressures and heat can do devastating damage. Below are some shots of what detonation can do. All this damage was done in LESS than 5 seconds!! Granted the environment was harsher than normal, but still shows what can happen when the right (or should I say WRONG) ingredients are combined) 97% Nitro Methane, 40# of boost, and 65 degrees of timing. We buy these in bulk: 100 at a time!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2016 at 3:56pm
Those Pictures are priceless. Thanks
Your comments are very accurate also.
I knew a guy that upgraded his Camaro from a 327 to a small block 400.
Increased compression from 9:1 327 to 10.5:1 in the 400.
Took about 6 mos for him to get the car on the road again.
Did his cam break in then proceeded to take it for his first test drive.
He stomped on the throttle to feel his new engine and on his first stab of the throttle broke piston rings in 3 cylinders with detonation.   He still had regular grade 6 mos old fuel in his tank had a little too much timing and the results were a total overhaul on his brand new engine. His might have gone 20 seconds before failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2016 at 6:30pm
No doubt you can kill an engine with a bad tune, particularly being too lean or through detonation due to aggressive timing, compression, poor fuel choices, etc. I can show you piles of burnt pistons and bent rods/cracked pistons not out of drag racers but out of classic inboards and ski boats.   

That is not however something that is related to the break in period, or process. The break in period accomplishes some very specific tasks, not all of which are applicable to all engines - some are related to preventing infant mortality, some ensuring engine life, and others that effect the performance of the engine. But, don't think you can baby your engine for 20 hours and then you are any safer going out and beating on it.

A proper tune is a whole other topic -albeit one worthy of plenty of discussion.
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