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GT40 fuel pumps inoperative

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    Posted: May-15-2016 at 6:12pm
I have a 2000 PCM GT40. Neither the LP nor HP pumps come on when I hit the start button and there is no fuel pressure at the FCC. I run the starter for several cycles and no pressure builds in the FCC. When I ground out the STO terminal per the thread I have studied, neither pump comes on.

I also purchased two new relays at O'reilly and got the same results.

It may be hidden in a thread somewhere, but I could not find anywhere that explained what it means, if neither pump operates when you ground the STO terminal.

Can someone please help me with a next step? Is there a fuse somewhere? I don't have the fuse in the battery box that I have seen mentioned in threads.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2016 at 6:55pm
And just in case it matters to the whole troubleshooting process, here is the sequence of events:
- skied one pass and boat died at turn island; restarted, died, restarted died, restarted but died while pulling me out; restarted again and died again; pulled it back to my dock
- at the dock it would start and die, so I figure it is a fuel problem
- put new filter in the FCC, which of course drained the FCC; the FCC was pressured and I had to use the Schrader valve to relieve the pressure before changing the filter
- tried to cycle the pumps to fill the FCC but neither pump would cycle
- shorted the STO to ground per thread instructions and neither pump comes on
- replaced both relays with BorgWarner relays from Oreilly and no change
- have pressed each of the reset buttons numerous times
- starter still turns the engine over but no pressure builds in the FCC

I have downloaded the PCM GT40 manual from the site and it is not the same as my GT40. I am guessing the manual is for a newer model GT40 than mine. My FCC is the spin-on type, at front left with HP pump inside FCC. The manual indicates a 20A circuit breaker located on/near the LP pump. I do not have one of those. And both my ECA and fuel pump relays are identical, unlike what is in the manual. I have so far been unable to locate a manual that is the correct one for my GT40.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2016 at 10:14pm
The boat died when you turned around which leads me to guess (that's all I can do) that your anti-siphon valve may have gotten stuck closed blocking fuel flow. Is there fuel in the line to the low pressure pump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2016 at 11:42pm
thanks for responding, but it did not die when I turned around; it died before the turn island.

Neither fuel pump is running and I don't how to further trouble shoot that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2016 at 11:51pm
I'm sure you've been through the "poor man's GT-40 troubleshooting guide"
Discussion on here, but if not....see next post

Just to be sure, you've bypassed the kill switch, right?

I once had an issue where the boat would die coming into dock and I fixed it by replacing the ignition switch (key-type).

another random thought--before I fixed my low pressure fuel pump (by replacing it) I used to hold the ignition in the start position longer than necessary to make sure the PIP signal was received by the ECU to keep the pumps going and it worked to make the boat start as a stopgap measure. These GT-40's are temperamental little buggers but once you sort them out they're fantastic boat engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2016 at 11:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 11:35am
thanks again for replying. I have checked the kill switch, but did not bypass it. Based on the sequence of events it is highly unlikely to be the culprit.

I reviewed the guide you linked to (and thank you) but did not find anything on there except that the relays may be bad. I had already replaced both with no joy.

thank you again for taking the time to reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 11:41am
Did you find the 30A fuse near the battery? I've never gone looking there. My fix came from two replacement parts, the Low Pressure pump and the ignition switch (which weirdly actuated the starter after a hot run and heading back into the dock--). Did you replace the small fuel line inside the FCC when you opened it up? A known issue with that small clear fuel line cracking has been troublesome for many.

Did you check your fuel vent and anti-siphon valve on the tank?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 12:46pm
I would fully check out the lanyard switch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 12:51pm
thanks again, but the problem is that neither pump will run. There is an electrical issue somewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 12:53pm
PIP sensor is worth checking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 12:56pm
I have checked the lanyard switch.

What else can cause neither pump to run when the STO terminal is grounded?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 1:00pm
Do you Need the PCM GT-40 manual? You seem quite competent at delving deep and their manual is incredibly detailed   I have a copy on my iPhone. Pm me your email if you want me to send it to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 1:32pm
there is a PCM GT40 manual in the files that I have downloaded. Unfortunately, it is apparently for a newer model than mine as the pictures and diagrams do not match my model. Mine is a 2000.
I will PM my email to you just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 4:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by tryathlete tryathlete wrote:

PIP sensor is worth checking.


The PIP sensor only comes into play when the engine is rotating. The fuel pumps will come on when the ignition is turned on. If you don't have spark check the PIP but the fuel rail will get pressure regardless of the PIP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 5:03pm
Check out this thread Mark,lewey2001 really has a handle on these gt40's. If this does not help maybe he will see this and comment. Can't imagine the wiring diagram is for a newer gt40 than yours,they were pretty much done with them in 2001. Mine is the odd ball with the tubular intake and no FCC which was a 95 only thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhersey29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 5:12pm
The next step is tracing the wiring is in manual L:19046 start at Step 3H-8 on page 248. Also take the 3 minutes and jumper the safety lanyard. All you have to do is connect the 2 wires behind it together and turn the key. That is an easy test. I also sent you a link to manuals on Planet Nautique. The engine manual is the same for 2000 as 1997. They changed the dash but your engine harness is the same.   1997 had the 20 amp fuse by the battery. The newer boats eliminated that fuse(well at least the ones I have run across).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 8:25pm
thanks for the responses. I will bypass the kill switch and do some voltage checks.

The manual thing is confusing to me. The engine drawing 2A-2 (p12) is not what I have. I have two identical relays and three circuit breakers in the back of the engine. I have printed the fuel system pinpoint test pages and will wade through that. It may be a while before I get back to this as I have to go out of town for a while. I was hoping to order any needed parts and have them here when I return but it appears it is not going to be that simple.

Thanks for the thread references, but I have read all of those and they were of some help. As far as I can tell there is no place in those threads which tell me where to go if the pumps don't run when I ground the pin on the STO connector.

Thanks again to all of you that are trying to help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2016 at 9:57pm
I had symptoms identical to yours before you changed the FCC. Mine would start then die. Sometimes I could fool it into running by keeping the ignition switch in the engage position even after it started for a few more seconds then it would keep running.

I replaced the Low Pressure Fuel Pump. Solved. It was slowly dying. Maybe take the risk like I did. You'll not go broke buying an LPP. You'll rule out one of the common failures of these engines and have it to do when you return from your trip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 2:06am
a courtesy reply for the suggestions on the lanyard switch...
I installed a jumper around the switch and nothing changed. Won't be able to get back on it for a few days now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 2:53pm
I wonder if this will help,I think this is where I'd start-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 3:05pm
Check your wire connections in the pump. Didn't someone just find corroded/ broken wires in the pump at the connectors not to long ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Check your wire connections in the pump. Didn't someone just find corroded/ broken wires in the pump at the connectors not to long ago.


Gary

Green 2000 says both of his relays are the same. Is that a possible issue? I thought they're the same too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 4:49pm
Well the trouble shooting book says not to be jumping around and at this point I would test at the relays if the main power was present and go from there. It also says that in the event of pump or circuit failure it will throw a code. For that he needs a reader like this one
The relays are the same,one is for the ecm the other is for the pumps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 5:00pm
He might need an OBD1 connector too--but I PM'ed him a photo of that already. Sure hope we get green2000 in action soon. We all know the feeling and frustration that these kinds of things bring to early Summer, don't we? Wish we could all just jump in with our tools, hands, and eyeballs but this is the second best I guess. Reminds me of operating with one of those Da Vinci remote surgical consoles but without the camera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 6:16pm
When I first got mine I disconnected the battery,replaced some ends on the cables. Went to launch and no start,everything worked,engine just would not fire. Brought it back home and between Quinner and his tool box and Gun driver on the phone found out I connected all the black wires to ground and all the reds to +. Little did I know that the one black was the + feed to the computer and fuel pumps, go figure I now put a red marker sleeve on that wire so I don't forget between the 6 months of down time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 6:34pm
Oh that's juicy. Black is Red! No wonder you needed the toolbox. There's gotta be some very special goggles in there that make all things look right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green 2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2016 at 7:47pm
this section 2A is one of the things I find confusing about the manual. It shows the fuel pump relay and EEC relay being different and in particular shows the FP relay only having four pins. Both my EEC and FP relays are identical and have five pins.

I don't know if my model is newer or older than what is represented in the manual; nor do I know where to get info that is accurate for my 2000 model year.

You guys are trying to help and I want you to know I do appreciate it. I won't be able to get back to the boat for over a week to try anything, so don't think I don't appreciate suggestions just because I cant try them now.

I may go ahead and buy both pumps just so I will have them. They are going to go out someday anyway and I have plans to keep this boat for a long time.
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